Conceptual question regarding buoyant force

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of buoyant force as it relates to a penguin floating in fluids of varying densities. Participants explore how buoyant force and the volume of fluid displaced are affected by the density of the fluids, with a focus on the implications of these relationships in the context of fluid mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the buoyant force is the same across different fluid densities, claiming it ties due to the gravitational force on the penguin being constant.
  • Others question this assertion, pointing out that the buoyant force should vary with the amount of fluid displaced, which is dependent on the fluid's density.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of Newton's second law in understanding the relationship between buoyant force and weight, suggesting that if the buoyant force were not equal to the weight, it would lead to acceleration.
  • There is a discussion about what constitutes the "amount" of fluid displaced, with some participants indicating that volume is the relevant measure for calculating buoyant force.
  • Another participant clarifies that while the weight of the fluid displaced is the same across different densities, the volume displaced is inversely proportional to the fluid density, leading to different volumes being displaced in fluids of varying densities.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the buoyant force is the same across fluids of different densities. While some maintain that it ties, others argue that it must vary due to differences in fluid displacement. The discussion remains unresolved with competing perspectives on the relationship between buoyant force, fluid density, and volume displaced.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not reached a consensus on the definitions and implications of buoyant force and fluid displacement. There are unresolved questions regarding the assumptions made about the relationship between weight, volume, and density in the context of buoyancy.

coconut62
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A penguin floats first in a fluid of density p0, then in a fluid of density 0.95p0, and then in a fluid of density 1.1p0. a) Rank the densities according to the magnitude of the buoyant force on the penguin, greatest first. b) Rank the densities according to the amount of fluid displaced by the penguin, greatest first.

Answer:
a) All tie. The gravitational force on the penguin is the same.
b) 0.95p0, p0, 1.1p0.

Why? Since the penguin displaces different amounts of water in the three fluids(as part b suggests) surely the buoyant force must be different? (Buoyant force = weight of fluid displaced) For example when the penguin is in fluid of density 0.95p0 half of the body is in the liquid, and when it is in the fluid of density 1.1p0 only a quarter of the body is in the liquid, how can the buoyant forces tie?

Thanks.
 
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coconut62 said:
a) Rank the densities according to the magnitude of the buoyant force
coconut62 said:
Answer:
a) All tie. The gravitational force

Keep track of which forces you're playing with, and you'll be fine.
 
coconut62 said:
how can the buoyant forces tie?
Consider Newtons second law. What would happen if the buoyant force were not equal to the weight?
 
coconut62 said:
Since the penguin displaces different amounts of water...
What does "amount" mean here? What measure of amount of displaced fluid is relevant for the buoyant force
 
Volume. Volume x density x gravity = F
 
Bystander said:
Volume. Volume x density x gravity = F
No it's not just volume, is it?
 
Yes.
 
I think I got it:

For all three fluids, weight of fluid displaced is the same, but

Weight = mg = (rho)(V)g

Therefore rho is inversely proportional to V.

For the fluid of highest density, volume displaced is the least, because just a small volume of this fluid already weights the same as a larger volume of another liquid with a lower density.
 
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