Conditions of Stability for second order system

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conditions for stability in a second-order system characterized by the transfer function H(s)=\cfrac{1}{a_{2}s^{2}+a_{1}s+a_{0}}. Participants are exploring the implications of the coefficients a_{2}, a_{1}, and a_{0} having the same sign and how this relates to the stability of the system, particularly in terms of the location of the poles in the left half-plane (LHP).

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about how to start the problem and considers a proof by cases but feels overwhelmed by the complexity.
  • Another participant suggests using the quadratic formula to analyze the conditions under which the roots of the characteristic equation have negative real parts, indicating that there are two cases to consider: roots with imaginary parts and roots with all real parts.
  • A participant questions whether it is necessary to prove the converse statement, that if the system is stable, then the coefficients must also be of the same sign, as the original statement is an "if and only if" condition.
  • Further elaboration is provided on the implications of the discriminant (B²-4AC) being negative or positive and what this means for the signs of the coefficients A, B, and C in relation to the stability condition.
  • One participant mentions trying different combinations of signs for the coefficients to reach a conclusion, while another prefers to establish boundaries based on the presence of imaginary roots.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best approach to prove the stability conditions or whether proving the converse is necessary. Multiple competing views on how to analyze the problem remain present.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the completeness of their approaches and the necessity of proving certain implications related to the coefficients' signs. There are unresolved mathematical steps and assumptions about the conditions for stability.

Chunkysalsa
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Homework Statement


Consider the transfer function [tex]H(s)=\cfrac{1}{a_{2}s^{2}+a_{1}s+a_{0}}[/tex]

where real-valued coefficients [itex]a_{2},a_{1}, a_{0}[/itex] are arbitrary except that [itex]a_{2}[/itex] is nonzero. Verify that the system is stable iff the coefficients [itex]a_{2},a_{1}, a_{0}[/itex] have the same sign.

Homework Equations



Professor gave us a hint to observe the quadratic formula

The Attempt at a Solution


I really don't know how to start it. I've tried a prove by cases but got bogged down fairly quickly. I can post what I have if this is the correct approach but I have doubts that it is. I just kept gaining more and more cases. A couple of hints towards the right direction would be most helpful

EDIT: I should note that I understand that for the system to be stable all the poles (2 in this case) of the transfer function should be in the LHP. That is that the the Re(p)<0 where p is the pole.
 
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Since you know the condition for stability real part of the root is less than 0 then you need to determine what is required of your constants to ensure that condition is met. Use your professors advice the quadratic equation: (-B±√B^2-4AC)/2A. There are really only two cases 1) the roots contain an imaginary part 2) the roots contain all real parts. If B^2-4AC is negative then there is an imaginary part. Show for each of the two cases what is required to get the real part to be negative.
 
Alright this is essentially what I did. I'm a bit iffy on a bit of the parts so I'll post it later today if my prof isn't able to help. I just thought they're might be a better approach then examining all possible cases.

Am I correct in saying that I'll also need to prove that if the system is stable then the coefficients are of the same sign since the statement says if and only if? The converse is easily proven but I'm just wondering if that's explicitly needed.
 
Chunkysalsa said:
Alright this is essentially what I did. I'm a bit iffy on a bit of the parts so I'll post it later today if my prof isn't able to help. I just thought they're might be a better approach then examining all possible cases.

Am I correct in saying that I'll also need to prove that if the system is stable then the coefficients are of the same sign since the statement says if and only if? The converse is easily proven but I'm just wondering if that's explicitly needed.

If b^2-4ac<0 then the roots contain imaginary parts, the real part is -B/2A, what is required for the real part to be negative? Then what is required of c given what you have already determined for A and B?

Second case is no imaginary part or B^2-4AC>0, B^2 is always greater than 0 so what is required of AC in order to make B^2-4AC greater than 0? don't forget the ± just before the radical. Now determine what is required of -b given what you know about A and C.

From your post it looks like what you are doing is trying out what happens for each combination of signs and trying to make a conclusion. This may work too but then you have to prove that two out of the 8 possible combinations actually work. My preference would be to set boundaries on the constants based on whether there is an imaginary part of the root or not.
 

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