Confused by Advanced Calculus Proof? Get Help Here!

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a proof in advanced calculus, specifically addressing the properties of open sets and their relation to continuity in topology and analysis. Participants express confusion regarding the use of open balls as representative open sets in the proof.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Some participants question the validity of using open balls to represent all open sets, suggesting that not all open sets are balls. Others clarify that open sets can be expressed as unions of open balls, which form a basis for metric spaces.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the proof's assumptions and definitions, with some providing insights into the relationship between topological and analytical continuity. There is an ongoing exploration of whether the proof adequately covers all open sets or if it relies too heavily on open balls.

Contextual Notes

There is a noted tension between the hypothesis of the proof and the conclusions drawn, with some participants emphasizing the need to use the hypothesis rather than proving it for all open sets.

kingwinner
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http://www.geocities.com/asdfasdf23135/advcal18.JPG

Well, I don't get the idea of the proof at all...

I have no clue why they can let U be an open ball. Not all open sets are balls, and if they let U be an open ball, it doesn't not seem to me that the proof has covered ALL possibilities of open sets U with the given property.

Can someone please explain?
 
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If I'm recalling correctly, it's because all open sets can be described as arbitrary unions of open balls. These are the basis elements. Open balls form a basis for the metric space, so you only need to check these and not every possible kind of open set.

Then again, I may be confusing topological and metric concepts here. The thing to remember is, you can describe pretty much any open set in R^k as a union of open balls.
 
Last edited:
kingwinner said:
http://www.geocities.com/asdfasdf23135/advcal18.JPG

Well, I don't get the idea of the proof at all...

I have no clue why they can let U be an open ball. Not all open sets are balls, and if they let U be an open ball, it doesn't not seem to me that the proof has covered ALL possibilities of open sets U with the given property.

Can someone please explain?

It says for ANY open set U. Balls ARE open sets. So in particular, the premise holds for them.
 
Dick said:
It says for ANY open set U. Balls ARE open sets. So in particular, the premise holds for them.

Yes, it says ANY, so we have to prove the statement for ANY open set that has the given property...
 
The assumption is the definition of continuous in topology. What you want to prove is what is usually taken as definition of continuity in analysis. The point of the proof is to show that if a function is "topologically continuous" then it is also "analytically continuous". So assuming f is "topologically continuous" - that is, the pre-image of any open set is again open - you have to prove that it is "analytically continuous", that is:
\forall \epsilon > 0 \exists \delta > 0: ||x - y|| < \delta \implies ||f(x) - f(y)|| < \epsilon

You can also prove the converse (then, assuming that it satisfies the epsilon-delta thing, which is basically the topological definition for open balls only, you do have to show that the pre-image of any open set is open), and then you have proven that the two definitions are equivalent for functions between real vector spaces (or, in other words, that when working on |R^n you can use the practical epsilon-delta definition instead of the rather abstract topological definition to prove continuity of a function).
 
Last edited:
kingwinner said:
Yes, it says ANY, so we have to prove the statement for ANY open set that has the given property...

NO! That is part of the hypothesis, not the conclusion. You use the hypothesis, you don't have to prove it. You don't have prove it "for any open set", you only have to prove "f is continuous on Rn". You can use whatever open sets you want. In particular, if balls are sufficient, that is all you need.
 

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