Confusion with Potential Energy and Work

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of potential energy, work, and their interrelations as described in a physics textbook. Participants explore the implications of different statements regarding work done on a system, particularly in the context of lifting a brick and the forces involved.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion over three statements regarding work and energy, particularly how they relate when lifting a brick and the implications of positive and negative work.
  • Another participant explains that there are two forces acting on the brick: the gravitational force and the force exerted by the hand, noting that the work done by the hand is positive while the work done by gravity is negative.
  • A similar point is reiterated by another participant, emphasizing that potential energy is associated with conservative forces and clarifying the signs of work done by different forces.
  • A participant questions the net work done on the system, seeking clarification on whether it is positive or negative.
  • Another participant references the work-energy theorem, suggesting that the net work done on the brick is zero if the brick is at rest in the initial and final positions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of work done by various forces and the overall net work on the system. There is no consensus on the interpretation of these concepts, particularly regarding the net work during different phases of lifting the brick.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss the definitions and implications of work and energy without resolving the underlying assumptions about the forces involved and their contributions to the overall energy changes in the system.

bdolle
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In my physics textbook chapter of work 3 statements are made which I am having trouble sorting through.

1. When W>0 the system's energy increases, when W<0 the system's energy decreases.
2. ΔE = ΔK+ΔU+ΔTherm = W
3. ΔU = -W

Here is where my confusion begins. If I move a 1kg brick from 0m to 1m I have added potential energy, more energy is stored in the system. Statement 2 asserts that because ΔU increases, ΔE will also increase and work will be positive. Statement 1 says that W>0 so the system's energy increases. But statement 3 says that ΔU= -W, but we can see clearly that ΔU was positive and that work is also positive.

I am missing something. Please help.
 
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There are two forces acting on the brick.
1. The gravitational force
2. The force exerted by your hand
When you lift the brick from 0m to 1m, the work done by you is +ve and the work by gravity is -ve.
Potential energy is a quantity to be associated only with conservative forces. The gravitational force is conservative; the force exerted by you is not.
So in the third equation, W (by gravity) is -ve and the ##\Delta U## is positive.
 
Aniruddha@94 said:
There are two forces acting on the brick.
1. The gravitational force
2. The force exerted by your hand
When you lift the brick from 0m to 1m, the work done by you is +ve and the work by gravity is -ve.
Potential energy is a quantity to be associated only with conservative forces. The gravitational force is conservative; the force exerted by you is not.
So in the third equation, W (by gravity) is -ve and the ##\Delta U## is positive.

What about net work done on the system? +ve or -ve? Why?

Thank you
 
When you first accelerate the mass upward the force up from your hand is slightly higher than the gravity force down. This means there is a smal amount of + net work done on the mass and this becomes the masses kinetic energy. As you slow your hand down towards the top the force up is less than gravity force down so +work done by you is less than -work done by gravity so net work during deceleration is negative and is equal to the loss in ke so you could think of the + work done during the acceleration bit representing the increase in ke (chemical to kinetic) and the -net work done bit at the end representing loss in ke (ke to gravitational potential)
 
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@bdolle you can see from the work-energy theorem that the net work done on the brick is zero ( provided the brick is at rest in the initial and final positions).
 

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