Congruence vs Family of Worldlines: Taking Notes

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the terminology used in the context of worldlines in general relativity, specifically whether "congruence" can be substituted with "family" of worldlines. Participants explore the meanings and implications of these terms within the literature and mathematical framework.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that "congruence" has a specific standard meaning, while "family" does not have a technical definition and is sometimes used informally.
  • One participant references the Wikipedia definition, suggesting that a congruence is always a family of worldlines, but the converse may not hold true.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of defining terms clearly, noting that a congruence is a set of integral curves of a nowhere vanishing vector field, while a "family of worldlines" may not imply this property.
  • There is a discussion about whether a "family" of worldlines possesses the same mathematical properties as a congruence, with some expressing uncertainty about this.
  • Participants discuss the relationship between congruences and the worldlines of observers, noting that timelike congruences describe observers' worldlines, while null congruences describe light rays.
  • One participant proposes a personal definition of a family of paths, suggesting that it consists of paths identified by parameters, and that a congruence requires additional conditions.
  • There is a query about the existence of a standard technical definition for "family" in the literature, with participants noting that they have not encountered one.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether "congruence" and "family" can be used interchangeably. There are multiple competing views regarding the definitions and implications of these terms, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the definitions and mathematical properties associated with "family" and "congruence." The discussion highlights the need for clarity in terminology, especially in technical contexts.

kent davidge
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I'm taking some notes about what I'm studying, and I would like to know if I can substitute the word "congruence" by "family" of worldlines. Is there any difference? In the literature, it seems that the former is favoured over the latter.
 
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kent davidge said:
I would like to know if I can substitute the word "congruence" by "family" of worldlines. Is there any difference?

The term "congruence" has a specific standard meaning. The term "family" does not; it is sometimes used as a synonym for "congruence", but it is not a standard term.
 
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kent davidge said:
If one goes by the Wikipedia definition

Wikipedia is not using "family" as a technical term, just as an ordinary language term. "Family" has no technical definition that I am aware of. "Congruence" does.
 
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If the details are important, maybe it's a good idea to DEFINE your terms,
even if it is to say " by X , I really mean Y ".

From your wikipedia link, (bolding mine)
In general relativity, a congruence (more properly, a congruence of curves) is the set of integral curves of a (nowhere vanishing) vector field
.
.
.

In general relativity, a timelike congruence in a four-dimensional Lorentzian manifold can be interpreted as a family of world lines of certain ideal observers in our spacetime.

In particular, a timelike geodesic congruence can be interpreted as a family of free-falling test particles.
Null congruences are also important, particularly null geodesic congruences, which can be interpreted as a family of freely propagating light rays.

So, "family of worldlines" without something akin to the bolded phrases allows other kinds of worldlines that would not comprise a congruence.
 
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What's mathematically important is that the tangent vectors of the congruence create a non-vanishing vector field at every event in space and time. Or, as Wiki says, that the congruence is a set of integral curves of a nowhere vanishing vector field.

Does a "family" have this property? If so, it's fine. I would tend to think it does, but as others point out it's a bit vague.

I've not seen it explicitly spelled out, but I, at least, think of the vector-field associated with the congruence as representing the velocity of an "observer". In the standard formalism it's the 4-velocity, though, not the 3-velocity. The wordlines themselves I regard as being the worldlines of "observers". And we require that one unique worldline (observer) pass through every event in space-time.

[afterthoughts, added later]
If "integral curves" are not familiar, it's worth looking them up and reading about them. Basically, the related math says that if you define a non-vanishing vector field at every point, you also define a set of curves whose tangent vectors are the vector field. This is akin to the process of integration, where you specify the derivative of a function at every point, and compute the function via integration, which is uniqute up to a constant factor. But in this case we sepcify the tangent vector of a curve for instance ##\partial t / \partial \tau, \partial x / \partial \tau, \partial y / \partial \tau, \partial z / \partial \tau##, to find the curve itself, ##t(\tau), x(\tau), y(\tau), z(\tau)##.
 
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pervect said:
I, at least, think of the vector-field associated with the congruence as representing the velocity of an "observer".

More precisely, this is what a timelike congruence describes--the worldlines of observers. A null congruence describes the worldlines of light rays. Mathematically, one could also construct a spacelike congruence, but I have never seen such a construction used.
 
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PeterDonis said:
More precisely, this is what a timelike congruence describes--the worldlines of observers. A null congruence describes the worldlines of light rays. Mathematically, one could also construct a spacelike congruence, but I have never seen such a construction used.

Ah yes, I was indeed describing a time-like congruence, the only sort of congruence I usually use, rather than a more abstract case.
 
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pervect said:
in this case we sepcify the tangent vector of a curve for instance ##\partial t / \partial \tau, \partial x / \partial \tau, \partial y / \partial \tau, \partial z / \partial \tau##, to find the curve itself, ##t(\tau), x(\tau), y(\tau), z(\tau)##.

It's worth noting that, if all you have is a tangent vector at an event, that is not sufficient to specify a unique curve. You have to add some additional information.

For example, if you specify that the curve is a geodesic, then the tangent vector at an event does uniquely specify the curve.

Or, if you specify that the tangent vector field is a Killing vector field, then Killing's equation provides enough additional information to uniquely specify a curve given a tangent vector at an event.

Basically, these are two different ways of specifying the path curvature of the curve (geodesic = path curvature is zero, Killing = path curvature is a function of the norm of the Killing vector), which is enough additional information to uniquely specify it.
 
  • #10
I’ll propose some definitions that I use. A family of paths is simply a set of paths each identified by 3 parameters. If one further requires that every point in the manifold lies on exactly one path in the family, and that every point on every path has a tangent vector (this is a minimal smoothness requirement), then you have a congruence. The associated vector field is simply all of the tangent vectors. Personally, I find it more useful to reverse the standard definition in this way, in most situations, than to specify a vector field first.
 
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  • #11
PAllen said:
A family of paths is simply a set of paths each identified by 3 parameters.

Is there a standard technical definition of "family" in a textbook or paper? I've never seen one. The only technical term I've seen a standard definition for in this connection is "congruence".
 
  • #12
kent davidge said:
In the literature, it seems that the former is favoured over the latter.

Can you give any examples from the literature of the use of "family" as a technical term (as opposed to just an informal word meaning "some bunch of worldlines")?
 
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  • #13
PeterDonis said:
Is there a standard technical definition of "family" in a textbook or paper? I've never seen one. The only technical term I've seen a standard definition for in this connection is "congruence".
No, that's why I identified it as a personal definition. However, it is inspired by many areas of math that talk in terms of a "k parameter family of X". At least if I want to refer to a family of world lines, for example, I would simply give my definition. A definition cannot be wrong really, though it would be perverse if it contradicts a standard one. In this case, you and I are both unaware of a standard one.
 
  • #14
PAllen said:
that's why I identified it as a personal definition

I understand, but the OP's question doesn't seem to be about personal definitions. It seems to be about standard technical definitions. The OP can clarify if I am mistaken.
 

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