Conservation of energy/momentum and difference reference frames

In summary, the conversation discusses a thought experiment involving a spaceship using mechanical springs for thrust. By firing a spring in a stationary frame and then in a moving frame, the ship appears to increase its velocity by the same amount each time, but this contradicts the conservation of energy. This is because the mass of the balls being fired must also be taken into account in the analysis. The conservation of momentum equation is used to show that the kinetic energy of the balls will be larger than that of the ship by a factor of M/m.
  • #1
fulis
6
0
I managed to confuse myself with a simple thought experiment.

I have a spaceship that uses mechanical springs loaded with balls for thrust. We start in a reference frame O where the ship isn't moving and fire one spring, which gives the ship a velocity v. Pick a new frame O', moving at v in the same direction, so the ship appears static again and fire another spring. If the mass of each ball is small in comparison to the ship, every repetition of this is the same, so the ship appears to increase its velocity by v each time a spring is fired. This doesn't make sense though, because let's say I fired 10 springs, then by tracing back to the original frame O the ship would appear to be moving at 10v. However, each spring is identical so it should store the same energy. Obviously E=M/2 * (10v)^2 != M/2 * 10 * v^2.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
If the ship is much heavier than the balls, then most of the energy stored in the springs is going to go to accelerating the balls. You must include the balls into your analysis in order to be able to use conservation of energy.

Example: For the firing of one ball at rest with ball mass m and ship mass M, conservation of momentum yields mv = - MV where v is the velocity of the ball and V that of the ship. As a result
$$
v = -\frac{MV}m \quad \Rightarrow \quad \frac{mv^2}2 = m\frac{M^2V^2}{2m^2} = \frac{M}{m} \frac{M V^2}2,
$$
so the ball kinetic energy will be a factor ##M/m## larger than the ship kinetic energy.
 
Last edited:
  • #3
Thank you :)
 

1. What is conservation of energy/momentum?

Conservation of energy/momentum is a fundamental law of physics that states that energy and momentum cannot be created or destroyed, but can only be transferred or transformed from one form to another. This means that the total amount of energy and momentum in a closed system remains constant over time.

2. How does conservation of energy/momentum apply to different reference frames?

Conservation of energy/momentum applies to all reference frames, whether they are stationary or in motion. This means that the total amount of energy and momentum in a system will remain constant regardless of the observer's perspective or frame of reference.

3. What is the difference between conservation of energy and conservation of momentum?

Conservation of energy and conservation of momentum are closely related principles. Conservation of energy states that the total energy in a closed system remains constant, while conservation of momentum states that the total momentum in a closed system also remains constant. However, energy and momentum can be transformed or transferred between different forms in a system, while still maintaining their overall conservation.

4. How does conservation of energy/momentum affect the motion of objects?

Conservation of energy/momentum can affect the motion of objects by determining their speed, direction, and overall behavior. For example, if an object gains momentum in one direction, another object in the system may lose an equal amount of momentum in the opposite direction to maintain overall conservation. This principle is important in understanding and predicting the behavior of objects in motion.

5. Are there any exceptions to the principle of conservation of energy/momentum?

While conservation of energy/momentum is a fundamental law of physics, there are some exceptions to this principle. In certain cases, such as in nuclear reactions or at the subatomic level, energy and momentum may not be conserved due to the influence of external forces. However, these exceptions are still governed by other laws of physics and do not discredit the overall principle of conservation of energy/momentum.

Similar threads

Replies
18
Views
961
  • Mechanics
Replies
9
Views
702
Replies
25
Views
1K
Replies
13
Views
1K
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • Mechanics
Replies
13
Views
967
Replies
30
Views
1K
Replies
12
Views
1K
Replies
14
Views
2K
Back
Top