Conservation of four momentum question

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conservation of four momentum in the context of particle annihilation, specifically addressing whether an electron and positron can annihilate to produce a single photon or if two photons are required. The scope includes theoretical considerations and implications in special relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that in the center of momentum frame, the electron and positron annihilate and produce two photons traveling in opposite directions to conserve momentum.
  • Another participant questions the necessity of the center of momentum frame, proposing that if one photon is produced with the same momentum as the sum of the four momenta of the electron and positron, it could still be valid.
  • A participant highlights that the norm of the photon four momentum is zero, implying a need for further calculations to explore the implications of producing a single photon.
  • Discussion includes the assertion that conservation of the zeroth component of four momentum relates to energy conservation, leading to a question about whether all collisions in special relativity are elastic.
  • Another participant argues that while macroscopic collisions can be inelastic, individual particle collisions are elastic since energy is conserved without loss to deformation or other forms.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of four momentum conservation regarding photon production in electron-positron annihilation. There is no consensus on whether a single photon can be produced or if two are necessary, and the nature of collisions in special relativity remains contested.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the center of momentum frame and the properties of photon four momentum, indicating potential limitations in understanding or assumptions about the nature of energy conservation in particle interactions.

vin300
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The question goes like this: Prove that conservation of four momentum forbids a reaction in which an electron and positron annihilate and produce a single photon(gamma ray). Prove that the production of two photons is not forbidden.
The solution is to work in the centre of momentum frame. I understand that, the electron and positron will travel in opposite directions in this frame since they both have the same mass, and the annihilation will conserve momentum by sending out even numbered photons, each pair in opposite directions of the same frequency.
My question is, why can't we not work in the centre of momentum frame. In the frame of the positron, the total momentum before collision is not zero, but after collision, if only one photon is produced with the same momentum as the sum of the four momenta of the electron and positron, things will still look good.
If two photons of the same frequency are emitted as seen in the C.M. frame, for an observer traveling in the MCRF of the positron traveling from right to left, the left going photon will be redshifted and the right going photon will be blueshifted. The resultant of this momentum has to be equivalent to the resultant momentum before collision.
 
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if only one photon is produced with the same momentum as the sum of the four momenta of the electron and positron, things will still look good.
Why don't you try an example calculation? Remember, the norm of the photon four momentum ist zero.
 
Conservation of the zeroth component means conservation of energy. Does this mean all collisions in SR are elastic collisions?
 
vin300 said:
Conservation of the zeroth component means conservation of energy. Does this mean all collisions in SR are elastic collisions?

Elastic vs inelastic collisions apply for macroscopic objects. If you are dealing with particles, all collisions are elastic because you keep track all the energy.

A macroscopic collision might be inelastic because some energy goes into deforming the material, or sound, or light, but if you are dealing with individual particles, the energy has nowhere else to go.
 

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