Conservation of the volume form

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between time dilation and spatial contraction in the context of general relativity. Participants explore whether a consistent mathematical relationship exists across different spacetimes, particularly focusing on the implications of various metrics, including the Kerr metric and the Rindler metric.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that if time is dilated or contracted by a factor k, then space should also be contracted or dilated by the same factor k in any valid spacetime.
  • Others argue that there are solutions to the field equations in general relativity where this relationship does not hold, citing examples such as dust solutions and Weyl vacuums.
  • A participant questions the validity of the claim by emphasizing the need to evaluate the determinant of the metric, suggesting that time dilation is not solely dependent on the g_00 component.
  • The Rindler metric is presented as a counter-example where gravitational time dilation occurs without a corresponding change in spatial distance, indicating that gravitational time dilation is coordinate-dependent.
  • Another participant contends that gravitational time dilation is fundamentally linked to special relativity, asserting that it is a consequence of the same phenomena.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the relationship between time dilation and spatial contraction, with some asserting a direct correlation and others providing counter-examples that challenge this view. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the relationship between time dilation and spatial contraction may depend on the choice of coordinates and the specific characteristics of the spacetime being analyzed. There is also mention of the need to consider the determinant of the metric in evaluating these effects.

relativityfan
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hi,

is it true that for any valid spacetime in general relativity that:
if time dilated/contracted by k, space is contracted/dilated by k?

what is the mathematical explanation for this?

therefore, if one knows the time dilation for a point in spacetime, then one knows automatically the length contraction?

for the Kerr metric, the problem is that at the event horizon of a black hole space is infinitely contracted but time does not seem infinitely dilated...
 
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relativityfan said:
hi,

is it true that for any valid spacetime in general relativity that:
if time dilated/contracted by k, space is contracted/dilated by k?
There are solutions of the field equations where this is not true.

Dust solutions usually have g00=-1, for instance. It isn't true generally for Weyl vacuums either.
 
really?
but the time dilation does not occur only for g_00, the determinant of the metric must be evaluated.
could you provide or link to a full example of such metric tensor, that is physically valid?
 
relativityfan said:
is it true that for any valid spacetime in general relativity that:
if time dilated/contracted by k, space is contracted/dilated by k?

I'm assuming you are referring to so-called "gravitational" dilation, and not the "special-relativistic" time dilation/length contraction due to motion.

Well, there is simple counter-example to your proposition: the "Rindler metric"

[tex]ds^2 = \frac{a^2 x^2}{c^2} dt^2 - dx^2 - dy^2 - dz^2[/tex]​

in which there is "gravitational" time dilation but no change in spatial distance. If you are not familiar with Rindler coordinates, they are coordinates relative to a rigidly accelerating rocket in flat spacetime (i.e. no gravity apart from the "artificial" gravity experienced by the rocket's occupants).

(The Rindler metric is just the Minkowski metric expressed relative to another coordinate system.)

This shows that gravitational time dilation depends on your choice of coordinates and is not an intrinsic (i.e. frame-independent) property of a spacetime.
 
thank you,
well the coordinate t in this Rindler metric is not time but a combination of space and time

the time dilation is of course not frame independent, but if you change the coordinates SYSTEM and not the spacetime position/frame of the observer, the lorentz factor must remain the same

sorry, but I have still not any convincing example.
for me the gravitationnal time dilation is just a consequence of special relativity: its exactly the same phenomena
 

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