Conserved Energy in a moving frame of reference

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the conservation of energy in a moving frame of reference, specifically analyzing a box sliding down an incline. The participants establish that at the top of the incline, the box possesses both potential energy (PE) and kinetic energy (KE), while at the bottom, it loses potential energy but retains kinetic energy relative to the observer. The key equation discussed is mgh = mv²/2, which holds true in both stationary and moving frames, provided the work done by the normal force is considered. The conversation emphasizes the importance of understanding relative velocities and the work done by forces in non-inertial frames.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of conservation of mechanical energy
  • Familiarity with kinetic and potential energy equations
  • Knowledge of inertial and non-inertial reference frames
  • Basic principles of vector addition and relative velocity
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the implications of the work-energy theorem in non-inertial frames
  • Explore the concept of normal force and its role in energy conservation
  • Investigate the effects of relative motion on energy calculations
  • Learn about vector decomposition in physics problems involving inclined planes
USEFUL FOR

Students of physics, educators teaching mechanics, and anyone interested in the principles of energy conservation in varying reference frames.

  • #31
Tinhorn said:
mg in the -y direction
that is why the sin is there
The weight acts downward, so is already totally in the y direction. No need for any sinθ.

mg sin theta cos theta in the y
mg cos ^2 theta in the x
I think you have these reversed.
 
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  • #32
so mg for weight

and mg sin theta cos theta in the x
mg cos ^2 theta in the y

how does that make fr = mgsinθcosθ x+ mgsin^2y
 
  • #33
Can i say mgsinθ is the force moving the box down the slope

since the x and y components of the force A is
A_{x}= A*cosθ
A_{y}= A*sinθ

I can say mg sin θ = mg sinθcosθ + mgsin^{2}

and since weight or gravity is also working on the box
which is -mg on the y component.

dot product would be

mgsinθcosθ _{x}- mgsin^{2} _{y}
which is the resultant (i copied the sign wrong last time)
 
  • #34
Tinhorn said:
Can i say mgsinθ is the force moving the box down the slope

since the x and y components of the force A is
A_{x}= A*cosθ
A_{y}= A*sinθ

I can say mg sin θ = mg sinθcosθ + mgsin^{2}

and since weight or gravity is also working on the box
which is -mg on the y component.

dot product would be

mgsinθcosθ _{x}- mgsin^{2} _{y}
which is the resultant (i copied the sign wrong last time)
That's the correct resultant, but I don't follow your reasoning. Here's how you get it by adding the force components you found earlier:

Add the x components (there's only one): mgcosθsinθ
Add the y components: mgcos2θ - mg = -mgsin2θ
 
  • #35
I get it.
but i had always thought the x and y components of the force A is
Ax= A*cosθ
Ay= A*sinθ

why does normal force have sin in its component
and cos in its component
 
  • #36
Tinhorn said:
I get it.
but i had always thought the x and y components of the force A is
Ax= A*cosθ
Ay= A*sinθ
Right, when θ is given with respect to the horizontal. (It's reversed when θ is with respect to the vertical.)

why does normal force have sin in its component
and cos in its component
Using your notation, A is the normal force, thus A = mgcosθ. When you find its components, you'll get the additional sine and cosine factors.
 
  • #37
One last question

if ΔKE = \frac{1}{2}mv^{2}_{x} + \frac{1}{2}mv^{2}_{y}

why is ΔKE also -\frac{1}{2}mv^{2}_{x} + \frac{1}{2}mv^{2}_{y}

should'nt it be -ΔKE
 
  • #38
Tinhorn said:
One last question

if ΔKE = \frac{1}{2}mv^{2}_{x} + \frac{1}{2}mv^{2}_{y}
That's an expression for KE, not ΔKE, right?
why is ΔKE also -\frac{1}{2}mv^{2}_{x} + \frac{1}{2}mv^{2}_{y}

should'nt it be -ΔKE
I don't know what you are asking.
 
  • #39
got it
wasnt clear about the question but i got it
 

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