Conserved Energy in a moving frame of reference

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the conservation of energy in a moving frame of reference, specifically analyzing a box sliding down an incline. The original poster attempts to reconcile the energy equations from both stationary and moving perspectives, questioning how potential and kinetic energy interact when viewed from different frames.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the conservation of mechanical energy, questioning the role of normal force in doing work in a moving frame. There are attempts to derive relationships between kinetic and potential energy while considering the effects of relative motion.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, raising questions about the validity of energy equations and the implications of moving frames. Some guidance has been offered regarding the need to consider the work done by the normal force and the relative velocities involved, but no consensus has been reached on the correct approach.

Contextual Notes

There are constraints related to the inability to simplify the problem to a stationary case, and participants are grappling with the implications of energy conservation in non-inertial frames. The discussion includes varying interpretations of how forces interact in different frames of reference.

  • #31
Tinhorn said:
mg in the -y direction
that is why the sin is there
The weight acts downward, so is already totally in the y direction. No need for any sinθ.

mg sin theta cos theta in the y
mg cos ^2 theta in the x
I think you have these reversed.
 
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  • #32
so mg for weight

and mg sin theta cos theta in the x
mg cos ^2 theta in the y

how does that make fr = mgsinθcosθ x+ mgsin^2y
 
  • #33
Can i say mgsinθ is the force moving the box down the slope

since the x and y components of the force A is
A_{x}= A*cosθ
A_{y}= A*sinθ

I can say mg sin θ = mg sinθcosθ + mgsin^{2}

and since weight or gravity is also working on the box
which is -mg on the y component.

dot product would be

mgsinθcosθ _{x}- mgsin^{2} _{y}
which is the resultant (i copied the sign wrong last time)
 
  • #34
Tinhorn said:
Can i say mgsinθ is the force moving the box down the slope

since the x and y components of the force A is
A_{x}= A*cosθ
A_{y}= A*sinθ

I can say mg sin θ = mg sinθcosθ + mgsin^{2}

and since weight or gravity is also working on the box
which is -mg on the y component.

dot product would be

mgsinθcosθ _{x}- mgsin^{2} _{y}
which is the resultant (i copied the sign wrong last time)
That's the correct resultant, but I don't follow your reasoning. Here's how you get it by adding the force components you found earlier:

Add the x components (there's only one): mgcosθsinθ
Add the y components: mgcos2θ - mg = -mgsin2θ
 
  • #35
I get it.
but i had always thought the x and y components of the force A is
Ax= A*cosθ
Ay= A*sinθ

why does normal force have sin in its component
and cos in its component
 
  • #36
Tinhorn said:
I get it.
but i had always thought the x and y components of the force A is
Ax= A*cosθ
Ay= A*sinθ
Right, when θ is given with respect to the horizontal. (It's reversed when θ is with respect to the vertical.)

why does normal force have sin in its component
and cos in its component
Using your notation, A is the normal force, thus A = mgcosθ. When you find its components, you'll get the additional sine and cosine factors.
 
  • #37
One last question

if ΔKE = \frac{1}{2}mv^{2}_{x} + \frac{1}{2}mv^{2}_{y}

why is ΔKE also -\frac{1}{2}mv^{2}_{x} + \frac{1}{2}mv^{2}_{y}

should'nt it be -ΔKE
 
  • #38
Tinhorn said:
One last question

if ΔKE = \frac{1}{2}mv^{2}_{x} + \frac{1}{2}mv^{2}_{y}
That's an expression for KE, not ΔKE, right?
why is ΔKE also -\frac{1}{2}mv^{2}_{x} + \frac{1}{2}mv^{2}_{y}

should'nt it be -ΔKE
I don't know what you are asking.
 
  • #39
got it
wasnt clear about the question but i got it
 

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