Where Did I Go Wrong with Conserved Quantities in Double Pendulum Lagrangian?

Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the discrepancies in conserved quantities derived from the Lagrangian of a double pendulum system based on different angle definitions. The user initially defined both angles from the vertical, resulting in a conserved angular momentum expression of Q = 2θ̇ + φ̇ + (θ̇ + φ̇)cos(θ - φ). However, when redefining the upper angle from the vertical and the second angle as measured from the first, the conserved quantity became Q = 4θ̇ + 2α̇ + 3θ̇cos(α) + α̇cos(α). The user identified that the error arose from incorrectly varying α in the second case, confirming that α should remain constant.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of Lagrangian mechanics
  • Familiarity with angular momentum conservation
  • Knowledge of double pendulum dynamics
  • Proficiency in mathematical notation and manipulation of equations
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the derivation of Lagrangians for multi-body systems
  • Explore the implications of varying coordinates in Lagrangian mechanics
  • Learn about conserved quantities in non-linear dynamical systems
  • Investigate the double pendulum's chaotic behavior and its mathematical modeling
USEFUL FOR

Students and researchers in physics, particularly those focusing on classical mechanics, Lagrangian dynamics, and chaotic systems, will benefit from this discussion.

Physgeek64
Messages
245
Reaction score
11

Homework Statement


Hi, I'm doing the double pendulum problem in free space and I've noticed that I get two different conserved values depending on how I define my angles. Obviously, this should not be the case, so I'm wondering where I've gone wrong.

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


For simplicity m=1 and r=1 in both cases for both bobs
If I choose to define both angles from the vertical then the Lagrangian is

## L=\dot{\theta}^2 +\dot{\phi}^2 +\dot{\theta}\dot{\phi}\cos{\theta - \phi} ##
for ## \theta \rightarrow \theta + \delta ## and ##\phi \rightarrow \phi + \delta ## ##f_{\theta}=1 ##, ##f_{\phi}=1 ##

Then the conserved angular momentum is

## Q= \frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{\theta}}+\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{\phi}} ##
## Q= 2\dot{\theta}+\dot{\phi}+(\dot{\theta} +\dot{\phi})\cos{\theta - \phi} ##

If we define the upper angle from the vertical and the second angle as measured from the first then the Lagrangian is

## L=\dot{\theta}^2+\frac{1}{2}(\dot{\theta} +\dot{\alpha})^2+\dot{\theta}(\dot{\theta}+\dot{\alpha})\cos{\alpha} ##

The conserved quantity is then

##Q= 4\dot{\theta}+2\dot{\alpha}+3\dot{\theta}\cos{\alpha} +\dot{\alpha}\cos{\alpha} ##

However if I sub in ## \phi= \theta + \alpha ## into Q it turns out these are not the same. Wondering where I have gone wrong.. Many thanks
 
Physics news on Phys.org
I have worked out my mistake. ##\alpha## should not be varied in the second case. Thanks :)
 

Similar threads

Replies
6
Views
2K
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
5K
Replies
9
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
5K
Replies
9
Views
3K