Constitutive Equation for required flow to maintain temperature

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining a constitutive equation for the required flow rate of coolant to maintain a specified temperature in an endothermic gas generator. The context includes the generator's operation at high temperatures and the role of coolant flow in temperature regulation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes an endothermic gas generator that maintains a temperature of 850 °C while not generating gas, with coolant flowing at 13.5 liters per minute.
  • Another participant notes that if there is no temperature difference between inlet and outlet coolant, then no heat is being removed, suggesting measurement error or the need for better measurement techniques.
  • It is proposed that reducing the flow could help measure the temperature uplift more accurately to calculate the power being absorbed by the coolant.
  • A calculation is presented assuming specific conditions (cooling medium as water, stable temperatures, and a small temperature rise) to estimate the power absorbed by the coolant, leading to a proposed power output of the generator.
  • Questions are raised about the stability of the inlet and outlet temperatures, indicating a need for clarification on the measurement conditions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the measurement of temperature differences and the implications for heat removal. There is no consensus on the effectiveness of current measurement methods or the actual power output of the generator.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about the specific heat capacity of water, the accuracy of temperature measurements, and the stability of the system during operation. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical steps required to derive a constitutive equation.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those involved in thermal management, fluid dynamics, or engineering applications related to high-temperature systems and coolant flow calculations.

Trespaser5
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I have an endothermic gas generator which maintains a heat of 850 °C while not generating endothermic gas. The generator maintains it's temperature through a burner control system, however coolant still runs through a water jacket around the outlet pipe (which in this state has no gas running through it) the average flow out is 13.5 litres per minute. When the flow is stopped some heat is picked up from the generator and the coolant steadily increases temperature, however the temperature inside the generator does not appear to change due to the control system controlling the gas burner, however I presume that the coolant will carry some heat away from the generator. When full flow is resumed there is currently no difference in inlet and outlet coolant temperature (that is one I can measure with a standard thermometer).

Can anyone think of an constitutive equation that will determine the required flow to maintain a specified cooling water temperature assuming say a pipe temperature of 200°C ?
 
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When full flow is resumed there is currently no difference in inlet and outlet coolant temperature (that is one I can measure with a standard thermometer

If there is no temperature difference then there is no heat being removed by the coolant.

Most likely the temperature difference is very small so the measurement is error prone. You need to find a better way to measure it. Perhaps reduce the flow to deliberatly increase the temperature uplift. Then you can work out the power that needs/is being removed. From that you can calculate the flow rate required for any particular coolant temperature increase.

or another way...

When the flow is stopped some heat is picked up from the generator and the coolant steadily increases temperature,

If you know the volume/mass of coolant, it's specific heat capacity and the rate of temperature increase then you can work out how much power the coolant is absorbing. From that you can calculate the flow rate required for any particular coolant temperature increase.
 
Can I check that when you say..

no difference in inlet and outlet coolant temperature

They are both stable as well?
 
For info..

Assuming:

1) the cooling medium is water
2) the flow rate is 13.5 L/min
3) the temperature rise less than 1C (insert lower figure if required)
4) Input and output temperatures are stable

then the power is less than..

Flow rate in L/S = 13.5/60 = 0.225 L/S = 0.225 Kg/S

Power = SCH * Δt * flow rate

= 4180 * 1 * 0.225
= 940W

Lets call it 1kW.

How much do you think your generator is producing? If less than say 500W that might explain why the temperature rise is hard to measure on an ordinary thermometer.
 

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