Constructing Lorentz Basis: Restrictions & Possibilities

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter parton
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Basis Lorentz
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the construction of a Lorentz basis in Minkowski space, specifically addressing the restrictions of proper Lorentz transformations, including the conditions Y_{0}^{0} > 1 and det( Y_{\mu}^{\lambda} ) = 1. Additionally, a related question about relativistic kinetic energy and its implications when considering the speed of light is raised.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the restrictions on the definition of a Lorentz basis, questioning the necessity of Y_{0}^{0} > 1 and det( Y_{\mu}^{\lambda} ) = 1.
  • Another participant suggests that these restrictions are inherent to proper Lorentz transformations, which maintain these properties when acting on basis states.
  • It is proposed that using such bases provides a "natural" time direction and handedness to the coordinate system.
  • A separate participant raises a question about the relativistic kinetic energy calculation, noting an infinite result when inputting the speed of light into a specific online calculator.
  • There is a clarification that the discussion is not about the relative kinetic energy of a moving object, but rather about the work done on it, with a suggestion that setting velocity to the speed of light in the kinetic energy equation leads to infinity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity and implications of the restrictions on Lorentz bases, indicating a lack of consensus. The discussion about relativistic kinetic energy also shows differing understandings of the concepts involved, particularly regarding the application of the speed of light in calculations.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully resolved the implications of the restrictions on Lorentz bases or the nature of the infinite result in the kinetic energy calculation. There are assumptions about the definitions and contexts of the terms used that remain unexamined.

parton
Messages
79
Reaction score
1
I found an interesting statement in the following exercise 3.2 a), but I'm confused:

http://books.google.com/books?id=7V...&oi=book_result&resnum=6&ct=result#PPA120,M1"

Why is there the restriction to Y_{0}^{0} > 1 and det( Y_{\mu}^{\lambda} ) = 1 in the definition of a Lorentz basis? In the literature you can also find the definition withouth the restriction to proper Lorentz-Transformations. So my question is if it is always possible to construct a basis with this restrictions and why?

Thanks
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
I think it's based on the following: The set of proper Lorentz transformations have the property \textrm{det}(\Lambda_\mu^\nu) = 1 and \Lambda_0^0. When acting on the basis states Y_\mu we end up with new basis states. The proper Lorentztransformations leaves the restrictions you mention intact. So if we start out with a Lorentz basis, and we only consider proper Lorentz transformations, then we will always deal with bases that have this property.

Also, I think that with such a choice of bases we also have a "natural" time direction and handedness of the coordinate system. Proper Lorentztransformations leave these properties intact.
 
I've a question about Relativistic Kinetic Energy. I understand the Proof but I see an infinite solution on the hyperphysics website when I put in the speed of light as the velocity v.

To reproduce

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/relativ/releng.html#c6
Enter mass m=1, 10^1
Enter velocity 2.998 10^8 which is C Metres Per Second and in the Javascript as C

I get K.E.(relativistic) Infinite solution.

Shouldn't the solution be E=MC^2? or 10 * (2.998 10^8)^2 where V=C?

Is it a bug in the program or a bug in my reasoning?
 
Right so, I get it now. We're not really dealing with the Relative Kinetic Energy of the moving object. We dealing with the work done on it. Thanks for your lack of response.
 
seadarie said:
Right so, I get it now. We're not really dealing with the Relative Kinetic Energy of the moving object. We dealing with the work done on it. Thanks for your lack of response.

You probably would have gotten a response
if you started your own thread and
not added to an existing thread that is not directly related to your question.

To answer your question,
who said that you could set v=c in that equation for the relativistic kinetic energy?
Mathematically, [with a fixed value for m_0 anc c] you get infinity... as reported by the program.
(The relativistic generalization of the so-called work-energy theorem still applies here:
the [relativistic] net work done on it is equal to the change in its [relativistic] kinetic energy.)
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K