Could Morse Code Be Instantaneous on a Million Light-Year Pole?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the hypothetical scenario of a one million light-year-long pole and whether Morse code signals could be transmitted instantaneously along it. The conversation explores concepts of compressibility, the speed of sound in materials, and the nature of wave transmission through physical objects.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that if a pole were truly incompressible, Morse code could be sent instantaneously, but this premise is challenged.
  • Others argue that no material is incompressible and that any impulse would travel at the speed of sound in the material, which is significantly slower than the speed of light.
  • Several participants emphasize that motion through a material is limited by the speed of sound, regardless of the length of the pole.
  • A participant questions whether moving the pole itself could be considered sending a wave, but responses indicate that the same speed of sound limitation applies.
  • One participant illustrates the concept of wave transmission using a metaphor involving people maintaining equal distances, highlighting the ripple effect and speed of sound in materials.
  • There are suggestions to add this question to the FAQ due to its recurring nature in discussions.
  • A later reply humorously suggests exploring the effects of temperature variations on such a pole, indicating the speculative nature of the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the premise of an incompressible pole and the implications for instantaneous communication. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing views on the nature of wave transmission through materials.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the assumption of an incompressible material, the dependence on the definitions of speed of sound, and the speculative nature of the scenario involving extreme lengths and conditions.

friendlycello
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Suppose a pole could be constructed that was one million light years long and was completely incompressible. If someone on one end tapped out Morse code on their end, would a person on the other end be able to receive the message instantaneously?
 
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Welcome to PF.

No, the impulse travels at the speed of sound in the pole.
 
In that nothing is incompressable the question is at heart wrong anyhow.

And no the speed of sound conduction in any given material is a lot slower than the speed of light (http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/sound/souspe2.html)

So your sound is going to take a lot longer than a million years to reach the other end of your rod.
 
There is no such thing as an incompressible object. Motion through a material travels at that material's speed of sound.
 
What if the transmitting person just moved the pole a foot forwards? Would that still be considered sending a wave down the pole?
 
sure, but same idea holds, that movement gets transmitted at the speed of sound.
 
To quote myself from the link mishrashubham supplied above

Any object when pulled stretches somewhat. With some materials this is obvious (rubber) with others it is less so (concrete). Whilst some objects are elastic and stretch a lot before breaking others are not and quickly break (if you were to pull at a brick it would stretch ever so minutely before it broke). So if you had a pole that was any length (whether it was between Earth and Mars or your left and right hand) when you pull one end it ripples all the way down it's length at its speed of sound stretching.

Imagine it this way, you have 100 people each standing in 100 one metre wide squares. These people have to remain the same distance between either neighbor preferably exactly 1 metre from the person on either side. If i take the person at one end and move them 1 metre then you will observe a ripple as one by one every one hops one metre to catch up with the person that just moved.

If the person at the other end can't move then the line is stretched with the ripple passing back and forth as everyone tries to both maintain an equal distance between each other as well as trying to obey the rule of being 1 metre away from both neighbours in this now 101 metre line of 100 people. If i was to let the end person jump back to his original place the ripple would travel down again.

The "ripple" speed in an object is the speed of sound within the object. It is impossible to build a magic string where all objects move at the same time to reposition themselves because it would require each atom to react instantly to what happens to every other atom.
 
I think this question should be added to the FAQ as it keeps coming up.
 
  • #10
I'm thinking almost everybody asked themselves this same question.
 
  • #11
No, not this again!
mishrashubham said:
I think this question should be added to the FAQ as it keeps coming up.
Yes.
 
  • #12
I also want the stretch and contraction of the pole given a variation of 0.0001 degree in the temperature of space on a 1 million light year pole ... that's about as sensible :-)
 

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