Could someone please explain what a limit is?

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    Explain Limit Limits
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of limits in calculus, including their definitions, applications, and examples. Participants seek to understand limits as they prepare for calculus, exploring both simple and complex cases, as well as the implications of limits in various mathematical contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants describe limits as a way to understand the behavior of functions near specific points, particularly when functions are not defined at those points.
  • Examples of limits are provided, such as ##\lim_{x \to 2} 3x = 6## and ##\lim_{x \to 1}\frac{x^2 - 1}{x - 1} = 2##, illustrating both continuous and discontinuous functions.
  • Another participant introduces a limit involving infinity, ##\lim_{x\rightarrow +\infty} \frac{x^9+x^8+x^7+x^6+x^5+x^4+x^3+x^2+x}{x^2+x}=\frac{\infty}{\infty}##, discussing the concept of indeterminate forms.
  • There is a correction regarding terminology, where one participant clarifies that the term "indecision forms" should be "indeterminate forms."
  • Participants discuss L'Hôpital's Rule, noting its usefulness but also its limitations, as it can sometimes lead back to the same indeterminate form.
  • One participant mentions a specific limit, ##\lim_{x\rightarrow +\infty}\frac{\sqrt{1+x^2}}{x}##, as an example of a limit that can lead to repeated applications of L'Hôpital's Rule.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the best methods for evaluating limits, as participants present various examples and techniques, including L'Hôpital's Rule and algebraic manipulation. Disagreements arise regarding terminology and the interpretation of certain limits.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the terminology used for indeterminate forms and the conditions under which different limit evaluation techniques are applicable. Some mathematical steps and assumptions remain unresolved.

Niaboc67
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I've been searching around trying to understand them. About to take calculus and I want to be prepared. Could someone explain what they are and give a few typical limit problems and solve them

Thank you
 
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Niaboc67 said:
I've been searching around trying to understand them. About to take calculus and I want to be prepared. Could someone explain what they are and give a few typical limit problems and solve them

Thank you
A limit can be used to tell you the behavior of a function near some point. It's most useful for functions that aren't defined at the point in question.

Some limits are very easy to calculate, either because the function in question is continuous at the point. For example, ##\lim_{x \to 2} 3x = 6##. Here the function is f(x) = 3x. Like all polynomials, this function is continuous everywhere, so taking the limit is as simple as evaluating the function at x = 2.

More interesting are limits where the function is not continuous at a particular point. Even so, it's possible for the limit to exist. Here's an example.
##\lim_{x \to 1}\frac{x^2 - 1}{x - 1}##. It turns out that this limit exists and is equal to 2. If you graph ##y = \frac{x^2 - 1}{x - 1}##, its graph is identical to the graph of y = x + 1, except that there is a "hole" at the point (1, 2). Taking the limit gives us the y-coordinate at the hole.

Probably the most important use of the limit in calculus is that it is used in the definition of the derivative of a function at a particular point. It is also used in the definition of one type of integral.
 
I want to add another example that you can joint in yours collection, for ##x\rightarrow +\infty##

[tex]\lim_{x\rightarrow +\infty} \frac{x^9+x^8+x^7+x^6+x^5+x^4+x^3+x^2+x}{x^2+x}=\frac{\infty}{\infty}[/tex]

we call ##\frac{\infty}{\infty},\frac{0}{0},0\cdot \infty, \left(0^{+}\right)^{0^{+}},+\infty-\infty##
indecision forms and we cannot say what is the exact value . In order to eliminate it we can use some tricks as:

[tex]\lim_{x\rightarrow +\infty} \frac{x^9\left[1+x^{-1}+x^{-2}+x^{-3}+x^{-4}+x^{-5}+x^{-6}+x^{-7}+x^{-8}\right]}{x^{2}\left[1+x^{-1}\right]}\sim \lim_{x\rightarrow +\infty}\frac{x^{9}}{x^{2}}\sim \lim_{x\rightarrow +\infty}x^{7}=+\infty[/tex]
limits can be ##\infty##, we include this symbol in ##\mathbb{R}## and we call ##\overline{\mathbb{R}}=\mathbb{R}\cup\{\infty\}## the extension with a ''partial arithmetization'' of the ##\infty## with rules ## \pm\infty \pm\infty=\pm\infty, \frac{c}{\infty}=0, \frac{c}{0^{+}}=\infty## with ##c>0## and ##-\infty## with ##c<0##. Obviously ##(\pm\infty)\cdot(\pm\infty)=+\infty## ... Remember important concepts

1)if limit exists then it is unique;
2)''in general'' algebraic operations are according with the the limit operator (so the limit of a sum is the sum of the limits ... );
3)in the limit operation we are interested to understand what happen to a function ''near'' to the point ##x_{0}## (if ##x_{0}=+\infty## we consider the set of '' far'' points as a neighborhood of ##\infty##).
 
Ssnow said:
I want to add another example that you can joint in yours collection, for ##x\rightarrow +\infty##

[tex]\lim_{x\rightarrow +\infty} \frac{x^9+x^8+x^7+x^6+x^5+x^4+x^3+x^2+x}{x^2+x}=\frac{\infty}{\infty}[/tex]
No.
We never write a limit as ##\frac{\infty}{\infty}##.
Ssnow said:
we call ##\frac{\infty}{\infty},\frac{0}{0},0\cdot \infty, \left(0^{+}\right)^{0^{+}},+\infty-\infty##
indecision forms and we cannot say what is the exact value .
They are called indeterminate forms, not indecision forms.
Ssnow said:
In order to eliminate it we can use some tricks as:

[tex]\lim_{x\rightarrow +\infty} \frac{x^9\left[1+x^{-1}+x^{-2}+x^{-3}+x^{-4}+x^{-5}+x^{-6}+x^{-7}+x^{-8}\right]}{x^{2}\left[1+x^{-1}\right]}\sim \lim_{x\rightarrow +\infty}\frac{x^{9}}{x^{2}}\sim \lim_{x\rightarrow +\infty}x^{7}=+\infty[/tex]
limits can be ##\infty##, we include this symbol in ##\mathbb{R}## and we call ##\overline{\mathbb{R}}=\mathbb{R}\cup\{\infty\}## the extension with a ''partial arithmetization'' of the ##\infty## with rules ## \pm\infty \pm\infty=\pm\infty, \frac{c}{\infty}=0, \frac{c}{0^{+}}=\infty## with ##c>0## and ##-\infty## with ##c<0##. Obviously ##(\pm\infty)\cdot(\pm\infty)=+\infty## ... Remember important concepts

1)if limit exists then it is unique;
2)''in general'' algebraic operations are according with the the limit operator (so the limit of a sum is the sum of the limits ... );
3)in the limit operation we are interested to understand what happen to a function ''near'' to the point ##x_{0}## (if ##x_{0}=+\infty## we consider the set of '' far'' points as a neighborhood of ##\infty##).
 
Yah, sorry in Italy we usual call the ''indeterminate forms'' as '' indeterminate or indecision forms'', thank you Mark44 for the clarification ...
 
L-Hopital's rule is awesome.
 
phion said:
L-Hopital's rule is awesome.
But it's not without its problems. For some problems, using L'Hopital's Rule just gets you back to the same indeterminate form you started with, so is no help, but simpler, non-calculus methods (such as removing common factors from numerator and denominator or multiplying by the conjugate) might be helpful.

That's not to say that L'Hopital's Rule isn't helpful, but it's important to have more than one tool in your kit.
 
Mark44 has reason, for example this limit

[tex]\lim_{x\rightarrow +\infty}\frac{\sqrt{1+x^2}}{x}[/tex]

is a ''perpetual motion'' limit because after two times that you apply De L'Hopital you obtain the same form ...
 

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