Covariant derivative of Killing vector and Riemann Tensor

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around proving a relationship involving the covariant derivative of a Killing vector and the Riemann tensor. The original poster (OP) seeks to establish the equation $$D_\mu D_\nu \xi^\alpha = - R^\alpha_{\mu\nu\beta} \xi^\beta$$, where D represents the covariant derivative and R denotes the Riemann tensor. The context is set within the framework of differential geometry and general relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the implications of raising indices on both sides of the equation and the resulting sign changes. There is a focus on the order of indices in the Riemann tensor and whether swapping them could lead to a resolution. The OP expresses uncertainty about the validity of their derived expression and seeks further clarification on the steps involved.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing insights and questioning the assumptions made by the OP. Some guidance has been offered regarding the use of the Bianchi identity and the potential for different sign conventions in various texts. However, there is no explicit consensus on how to proceed with the proof.

Contextual Notes

There is a mention of differing sign conventions in the definition of the curvature tensor across different textbooks, which may affect the interpretation of the equations involved. The OP is also reminded of forum rules regarding posting assignment questions.

dwellexity
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I need to prove that $$D_\mu D_\nu \xi^\alpha = - R^\alpha_{\mu\nu\beta} \xi^\beta$$ where D is covariant derivative and R is Riemann tensor. ##\xi## is a Killing vector.
I have proved that $$D_\mu D_\nu \xi_\alpha = R_{\alpha\nu\mu\beta} \xi^\beta$$
I can't figure out a way to get the required form from my solution. Please suggest a way to get the required form from my solution.
 
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What happens when you raise the ##\alpha## index on each side?
 
PeterDonis said:
What happens when you raise the ##\alpha## index on each side?
Just raising the ##\alpha## index doesn't solve the problem. There is still the minus sign and the order of ##\mu## and ##\nu## indices is wrong.
 
dwellexity said:
There is still the minus sign and the order of ##\mu## and ##\nu## indices is wrong.

What happens when you swap those indices on the Riemann tensor?
 
PeterDonis said:
What happens when you swap those indices on the Riemann tensor?
I do not know of any symmetry involving swapping two middle indices of the Riemann tensor. The symmetries I know involve first two or last two or pair of first two and last two.
 
@PeterDonis Did you delete the last post? I can't see it anymore. Anyway, I tried what you suggested and it didn't get me anywhere. Maybe I am doing something wrong. Could you please show me a few steps?
 
The relation you have found so far is correct (see e.g. Carroll's book, eq 3.176).
I'm not sure if it can be rewritten using the Bianchi identity ##R_{\mu[\nu\rho\sigma]}=0## you can check out this question+the answers for inspiration.
http://math.stackexchange.com/quest...t-killing-vector-and-riemann-curvature-tensor

Edit:
As Peter remarks below I was unclear, I verified that your result is a valid expression.
However I'm not sure whether your desired expression is valid or not and give some pointers (which are likely irrelevant since you already used them to reach the result so far).
 
dwellexity said:
Did you delete the last post?

Yes, because I realized I was misreading the index order in the second equation in your OP. Where did you obtain the first equation in your OP, the one you are trying to prove?
 
Added an edit, somehow it seems I forgot to clarify what I was actually saying.
 
  • #10
PeterDonis said:
Yes, because I realized I was misreading the index order in the second equation in your OP. Where did you obtain the first equation in your OP, the one you are trying to prove?
It's a question in an assignment I have to do.
 
  • #11
You should also be aware that there are many different sign conventions in different textbooks (or even different editions of the same textbook!) in the definition of the curvature tensor. This is very unfortunate, but you can't help it. There's a table of conventions in the famous book by Misner, Thorne, and Wheeler.
 
  • #12
dwellexity said:
It's a question in an assignment I have to do.

Then this whole thread should be in the homework forum. And you should have filled out the homework template. Please do not post assignment questions in the regular forums in future; that is against PF rules.

Edit: I have moved the thread to Advanced Physics Homework. dwellexity, please post the actual question from your assignment.
 

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