Creating Mass w/ Velocity: Effects on EM Wave?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of electromagnetic waves, particularly in relation to mass and velocity, and how these concepts intersect with pair production in quantum physics. Participants explore the implications of creating electromagnetic waves with electric and magnetic fields that are partially out of phase, and whether such waves can be treated similarly to mass moving at subluminal speeds.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether an electromagnetic wave with partially out-of-phase electric and magnetic fields would behave like a mass moving slower than light.
  • Another participant inquires if such a wave would satisfy Maxwell's equations.
  • Concerns are raised about the conditions of pair production, specifically regarding the minimum energy required for a light wave to convert into mass and whether the electric and magnetic fields can go out of phase during this process.
  • A participant emphasizes the distinction between classical and quantum views of light, suggesting that modeling light as classical waves may not be appropriate for understanding pair production.
  • Discussion includes references to specific pair production processes, such as photon-photon interactions and the Schwinger mechanism, highlighting the complexities involved in describing these phenomena in classical terms.
  • Some participants mention ongoing research and resources related to classical electrodynamics and pair production, indicating that this area is still being explored.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of classical versus quantum models in explaining pair production, indicating that there is no consensus on how to approach the topic. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the treatment of electromagnetic waves in relation to mass and pair production.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the limitations of classical models in explaining quantum phenomena, and there are unresolved questions about the conditions under which electromagnetic waves can be treated as classical entities.

marlowgs
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If I create an electromagnetic wave with electric and magnetic fields partially out of phase, would it behave the same as a mass with velocity less than the speed of light?
 
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Would such a wave satisfy Maxwell's equations?
 
In pair-production, a light wave (in-phase E&M) comes close to a heavy particle and turns into two masses with momentum, but the light wave needs to have a minimum energy to produce the particles. I’m wondering what happens if less than the minimum is there. Do the electric and magnetic fields go out of phase for a short time as the photon swipes past the heavy particle and does the partially out-of-phase photon act as an intermediate particle.
 
marlowgs said:
In pair-production, a light wave (in-phase E&M) comes close to a heavy particle and turns into two masses with momentum, but the light wave needs to have a minimum energy to produce the particles. I’m wondering what happens if less than the minimum is there. Do the electric and magnetic fields go out of phase for a short time as the photon swipes past the heavy particle and does the partially out-of-phase photon act as an intermediate particle.

You're mixing up the classical and quantum views of light, and that's not going to end well. :wink:

For pair production, the only approach I've seen uses the quantum view of light, in which light isn't a wave, it's photons (heuristically speaking). Then there is no such thing as the electric and magnetic fields being in phase or out of phase, because you're not modeling the light as electric and magnetic fields.

I don't know if anyone has even tried to model pair production with the light being treated classically. I suspect it wouldn't work.
 
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It depends, which process you look at. If you have in mind pair production as the process ##\gamma + \gamma \rightarrow \mathrm{e}^+ + \mathrm{e}^-##, I don't see, how you could describe this in classical terms.

The other extreme is the Schwinger mechanism, where a very strong static classical electric field leads to the spontaneous production of electron-positron pairs. So far this has not been observed in nature.
 
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PeterDonis said:
[..]
I don't know if anyone has even tried to model pair production with the light being treated classically. I suspect it wouldn't work.
Interesting question! A quick search about "pair production in classical electrodynamics" yields a paper by A. Carati as well as more recently, a Powerpoint and a youtube presentation by Martin Land. Obviously it's "work-in-progress".
 

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