Critical damping provides the quickest approach to zero amplitude

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the behavior of damped oscillators, specifically focusing on critical damping, underdamping, and overdamping. Participants explore the implications of different damping levels on the approach to zero amplitude, both in theoretical and physical contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that critical damping provides the quickest approach to zero amplitude, while underdamping leads to oscillations around zero and overdamping results in a slower approach.
  • One participant questions the assertion that more damping leads to a faster approach to zero, prompting a debate about the nature of damping.
  • There is uncertainty regarding whether amplitudes in underdamped, overdamped, and critically damped systems theoretically reach zero or only approach it.
  • Another participant clarifies that in unforced physical systems, oscillations do reach zero amplitude, while in forced systems, steady state errors may prevent this.
  • Some participants express confusion about the application of concepts from forced and unforced systems, leading to further clarification attempts.
  • One participant notes that theoretically, due to the exponential nature of decay, oscillations never actually reach zero amplitude.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach consensus on the implications of damping on the approach to zero amplitude, with multiple competing views remaining regarding the theoretical versus physical behavior of damped oscillators.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the definitions of forced versus unforced systems and the assumptions about energy input, which remain unresolved.

linyen416
Messages
20
Reaction score
0
Critical damping provides the quickest approach to zero amplitude for a damped oscillator. With less damping (underdamping) it approaches zero displacement faster, but oscillates around it. With more damping (overdamping), the approach to zero is slower.

I got this from hyperphysics
but I am not sure aout the last sentence
with more damping shouldn't the approach to zero be even faster
 
Physics news on Phys.org


No, why should it?
 


cyrus, i thought damping brings it down to zero faster.

also another thing that's troubling me is : for underdamping, overdamping, adn critical damping, do the amplitudes eventually REACH zero IN THEORY or is it that theoretically they only APPROACH zero? thanks
 


Well, I would rethink how you came to that conclusion. No where in what you copied from hyperphysics did it says 'damping brings it down to zero faster'.

No, they actually reach zero in physical systems if the system is unforced (meaning there is no energy being supplied). I.e. I give it an intial energy and watch it decay back down to zero - a transient.

If energy is supplied via forcing, its a totally different story. The exact why and how of that is beyond the scope of this thread. For now, just know that if there is an energy input, steady state errors can and do occur in the system. Meaning it won't decay back down exactly to zero -not in theory or in real life.
 
Last edited:


So for an unforced underdamped oscillation, due to steady state errors that occur in real life, won't decay to zero?
 


linyen416 said:
So for an unforced underdamped oscillation, due to steady state errors that occur in real life, won't decay to zero?

No, re-read what I wrote. I never said any of that. I gave you two clear examples (a) unforced and (b) forced. I have no idea why you took my answer for (a) and applied it to (b)...you need to pay closer attention to what you're reading (both my post and hyperphysics) because you are reading into things that are not being said.

Take a step back and read things for what they are.
 


cyrus, i was asking abotu unforced underdamped oscillation... so in actual physical systems they do reach zero and but theoretically they dont
 


wouldn't there be steady state errors in underdamped oscillation that is unforced?
 


linyen416 said:
cyrus, i was asking abotu unforced underdamped oscillation... so in actual physical systems they do reach zero and but theoretically they dont

...I never said that.

Maybe you are not familiar with the term "physical systems" - that means a real system. Its physical.
 
  • #10


linyen416 said:
wouldn't there be steady state errors in underdamped oscillation that is unforced?

No, there is no energy being supplied to keep it at a nonzero value. So how could it?
 
  • #11


theoretically it never reaches zero because of the exponential nature of decay, right?
 
  • #12


linyen416 said:
theoretically it never reaches zero because of the exponential nature of decay, right?

Yes, that's correct-good observation. :smile:
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
7K
  • · Replies 131 ·
5
Replies
131
Views
8K
Replies
17
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
7K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
8
Views
3K
Replies
1
Views
3K
Replies
3
Views
6K
Replies
1
Views
2K