Critical density of water - phase transitions

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of critical density in the context of phase transitions of water, specifically focusing on the gas-liquid transition. Participants explore the implications of critical density on the behavior of water in different phases and seek clarification on its role and calculation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks for elaboration on critical density and its role in gas-liquid and liquid-gas transitions, questioning if it is the same for both transitions.
  • Another participant suggests that critical density refers to the density at the critical point where liquid and gas phases coexist and become indistinguishable.
  • A subsequent reply raises a concern about the implications of having two equations for one variable (critical density) and questions the consistency of the definitions used in different phases.
  • Another participant clarifies that at the critical point, the densities of gas and liquid are equal, and discusses the order parameter as the difference between fluid density and critical density.
  • There is mention of using an equation of state to theoretically calculate critical density, noting that parameters are typically derived from critical temperature and pressure rather than the other way around.
  • Participants discuss the behavior of isotherms near the critical point, highlighting the mathematical conditions related to pressure and density.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of critical density and its calculation, with no consensus reached on the interpretation of its role in the phase transitions.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the consistency of critical density across phases and the mathematical relationships involved in its determination. The discussion reflects a complexity in the definitions and calculations related to phase transitions.

TheDestroyer
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Hello people,

I'm studying now phase transitions. I saw that the order parameter of water gas-liquid transition is the d[g]-d[c] or d[l]-d[c].

where
d[g] is gas density
d[l] is liquid density
d[c] is the critical density

Can someone please elaborate more about the critical density?
what is it?
how can it be a factor between both transitions from liquid-gas and gas-liquid, I mean is it the same for both transitions?
if yes, then how can both become zero in the phase transition on each side of the critical temperature? and is there some theoretical way to calculate the critical density?

Thank you :)
 
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TheDestroyer said:
Hello people,

I'm studying now phase transitions. I saw that the order parameter of water gas-liquid transition is the d[g]-d[c] or d[l]-d[c].

where
d[g] is gas density
d[l] is liquid density
d[c] is the critical density

Can someone please elaborate more about the critical density?
what is it?
how can it be a factor between both transitions from liquid-gas and gas-liquid, I mean is it the same for both transitions?
if yes, then how can both become zero in the phase transition on each side of the critical temperature? and is there some theoretical way to calculate the critical density?

Thank you :)

I think this d[c] must refer to the density at the critical point (the point where the liquid/gas coexistence curve terminates). At this point there is no longer a difference between the liquid and the gas so that the density at this critical point is the same for both.
 
Thank you for your answer

But then how do we say that d[g]-d[c]=0 in liquid phase, and d[l]-d[c]=0 in gas phase? this means either that d[c] doesn't have a constant value for a certain liquid, or there is something else I can't find out. Because you have 2 equations for 1 variable (unknown), which is d[c]! does it make sense?

Am I thinking in a wrong way? please let me know :)
 
But then how do we say that d[g]-d[c]=0 in liquid phase, and d[l]-d[c]=0 in gas phase?
At the critical point d[g]=d[l].

The order parameter is actually d[fluid]-d[c], but the fluid can be a gas, a liquid, or a supercritical fluid depending on temperature and pressure.

The distinction "gas" or "liquid" is only meaningful below the critical temperature, where the fluid is "gas" on one side of the coexistence curve and "liquid" on the other side.

As for theoretical calculation, if you have an equation of state it can be calculated--but normally the parameters for the equation of state are calculated from critical temperature and pressure, rather than the other way around.

If you plot isotherms for a fluid, you will see this at the critical point:

{{\partial P}\over \partial d}=0

{{\partial^{2} P}\over \partial d^{2}}=0

Above the critical temperature the slope will never be zero, and below the critical point the slope will have a relative maximum and relative minimum, but the inflection point between them will not be horizontal.
 
Last edited:

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