Defective light bulbs - Joint probability

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves calculating the probability of selecting defective light bulbs from a set of 25 bulbs, of which 5 are defective, when 8 bulbs are chosen. The focus is on determining the likelihood that 2 or fewer of the selected bulbs are defective.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss various methods for calculating the probability, including casework and combinatorial counting. Some question the appropriateness of using permutations or random variable distributions. Others suggest specific cases to consider, such as selecting different combinations of defective and non-defective bulbs.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants exploring different approaches to the problem. Some have provided insights into counting methods and the implications of sampling with or without replacement. There is no explicit consensus on the best method yet.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the complexities of probability calculations and the assumptions related to sampling methods, particularly the distinction between sampling with and without replacement.

hadroneater
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Homework Statement


Of 25 light bulbs, 5 are defective. 8 bulbs are chosen from the 25. What is the probability that 2 or fewer of the 8 selected light bulbs are defective?


Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution


It's been awhile since I've done questions like this one. I was thinking it has something to do with permutations or perhaps some sort of random variable distribution?
 
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Well, one way to do it is to chose 2 of the defective bulbs and 6 of the good bulbs. Or you could choose 1 defective and 7 good. Or just choose 8 good. Do you know how to count the ways for those cases? Then just divide the total number of ways to choose 8 bulbs.
 
hadroneater said:

Homework Statement


Of 25 light bulbs, 5 are defective. 8 bulbs are chosen from the 25. What is the probability that 2 or fewer of the 8 selected light bulbs are defective?

Let's go through some casework.

If no selected light bulbs are defective, there is a (4/5)^8 chance of that happening

If 1 selected light bulb is defective, there is a (4/5)^7*(1/5)*8 chance of that happening.

If 2 selected light bulbs are defective, there is a (4/5)^6*(1/5)^2*8*7 chance of that happening. How I got the integers is by doing 8C8=1, 8C7=8, and 8C6=8*7. This is because order does not matter i.e. if you pick a defective then a good one, it's the same as picking a good one, then a defective.
 
quincyboy7 said:
Let's go through some casework.

If no selected light bulbs are defective, there is a (4/5)^8 chance of that happening

If 1 selected light bulb is defective, there is a (4/5)^7*(1/5)*8 chance of that happening.

If 2 selected light bulbs are defective, there is a (4/5)^6*(1/5)^2*8*7 chance of that happening. How I got the integers is by doing 8C8=1, 8C7=8, and 8C6=8*7. This is because order does not matter i.e. if you pick a defective then a good one, it's the same as picking a good one, then a defective.

Your argument applies to sampling "with replacement", where each successive drawing is independent of previous drawings (essentially because we put back the bulb after drawing it out). That is not normally how sampling is done in practice. Instead, we should probably look at sampling "without replacement". This would give P{no defects in sample} = (20/25)*(19/24)*(18/23)*...*(13/18), because after removing the first non-defective we are left with 24 bulbs, of which 19 are non-defective, etc.

RGV
 

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