Defining Elements on the Real Line?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter sponsoredwalk
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Elements Line
Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the mathematical concept of defining elements on the real line, specifically regarding the set A = {r ∈ Q: r² < 2}. The user seeks clarification on whether there exists a largest element in A and the implications of finding an integer n ∈ N that satisfies certain conditions. The lecturer's explanation involves inequalities and the least upper bound property, which the user finds confusing. Key points include the transition from using n² to n in the inequalities and the reasoning behind it, which is based on the properties of rational numbers and their bounds.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of rational numbers (Q) and their properties
  • Familiarity with inequalities and algebraic manipulation
  • Knowledge of the least upper bound property in real analysis
  • Basic concepts of limits and convergence in sequences
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the least upper bound property in real analysis
  • Learn about rational approximations and their significance in calculus
  • Explore inequalities and their applications in mathematical proofs
  • Review video lectures on real analysis, particularly those covering the real line and its properties
USEFUL FOR

Students of mathematics, particularly those studying real analysis, educators seeking to clarify concepts related to the real line, and anyone interested in the properties of rational numbers and inequalities.

sponsoredwalk
Messages
531
Reaction score
5
RE-EDIT: I'm confused again, continue on reading :redface:Bonjourno, I'm trying to work at the lectures provided on youtube by nptelhrd but I've gotten my foot stuck in a hole in the real line only 15 minutres into it :frown:

(In my head I say "such that" whenever the symbol : pops up!).

We define a set;

A : {r ∈ Q: r²<2}

Does ∃ a largest element of A in Q?

1: We seek to find some n ∈ N : ( r \ + \ \frac{1}{n} ) will satisfy the conditions specified by A.

2: (r \ + \ \frac{1}{n} )^2 \ &lt; \ 2

3: r^2 \ + \ \frac{2r}{n} \ + \ \frac{1}{n^2} \ &lt; \ 2

4: \frac{2r}{n} \ + \ \frac{1}{n^2} \ &lt; \ 2 \ - \ r^2

The R.H.S. is strictly positive due to r²<2.

Okay, I understand up to here but then the lecturer starts to get confusing, he then says that It suffices only to find some n ∈ N :

\frac{2r}{n} \ + \ \frac{1}{n} \ &lt; \ 2 \ - \ r^2

Notice the n and not n² on the bottom of the L.H.S. Fraction!

He says;

This is because;

\frac{1}{n^2} &lt; \frac{1}{n} \ and \ this \ implies \ \frac{2r}{n} \ + \ \frac{1}{n^2} \ &lt; \ \frac{2r}{n} \ + \ \frac{1}{n} [/itex]<br /> <br /> I have no idea where this came from!The video is on youtube <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lzOAW8yMTc&amp;feature=PlayList&amp;p=8F599D7DB30C539B&amp;playnext_from=PL&amp;index=0&amp;playnext=1" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lzO...DB30C539B&amp;playnext_from=PL&amp;index=0&amp;playnext=1</a> and I would say everything he is trying to do is described from 10:00 to 14:00.<br /> <br /> I would <b>extremely</b> appreciate it if someone could take 6 minutes to watch this and correct me as I have nobody else <img src="https://www.physicsforums.com/styles/physicsforums/xenforo/smilies/oldschool/redface.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":redface:" title="Red Face :redface:" data-shortname=":redface:" /> to explain it to me.<br /> <br /> What I think is going on is that he is trying to prove a least upper bound or something and that this will show that the real line can be continuously divided, or something.
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
sponsoredwalk said:
RE-EDIT: I'm confused again, continue on reading :redface:


Bonjourno, I'm trying to work at the lectures provided on youtube by nptelhrd but I've gotten my foot stuck in a hole in the real line only 15 minutres into it :frown:

(In my head I say "such that" whenever the symbol : pops up!).

We define a set;

A : {r ∈ Q: r²<2}

Does ∃ a largest element of A in Q?

1: We seek to find some n ∈ N : ( r \ + \ \frac{1}{n} ) will satisfy the conditions specified by A.

2: (r \ + \ \frac{1}{n} )^2 \ &lt; \ 2

3: r^2 \ + \ \frac{2r}{n} \ + \ \frac{1}{n^2} \ &lt; \ 2

4: \frac{2r}{n} \ + \ \frac{1}{n^2} \ &lt; \ 2 \ - \ r^2

The R.H.S. is strictly positive due to r²<2.

Okay, I understand up to here but then the lecturer starts to get confusing, he then says that It suffices only to find some n ∈ N :

\frac{2r}{n} \ + \ \frac{1}{n} \ &lt; \ 2 \ - \ r^2

Notice the n and not n² on the bottom of the L.H.S. Fraction!

He says;

This is because;

\frac{1}{n^2} &lt; \frac{1}{n} \ and \ this \ implies \ \frac{2r}{n} \ + \ \frac{1}{n^2} \ &lt; \ \frac{2r}{n} \ + \ \frac{1}{n} [/itex]<br /> <br /> I have no idea where this came from!
<br /> For any integer n&gt; 1, 1&amp;gt; \frac{1}{n} (divide both sides of n&gt; 1 by the positive number n) so \frac{1}{n}&amp;gt; \frac{1}{n^2} (divide both sides by n again). Now, adding any number a to both sides, a+ \frac{1}{n}&amp;gt; a+ \frac{1}{n^2}. In particular, if a= \frac{2r}{n}, \frac{2r}{n}+ \frac{1}{n}&amp;gt; \frac{2r}{n}+ \frac{1}{n^2}.<br /> <br /> <br /> <blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="" data-source="" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> The video is on youtube <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lzOAW8yMTc&amp;feature=PlayList&amp;p=8F599D7DB30C539B&amp;playnext_from=PL&amp;index=0&amp;playnext=1" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lzO...DB30C539B&amp;playnext_from=PL&amp;index=0&amp;playnext=1</a> and I would say everything he is trying to do is described from 10:00 to 14:00.<br /> <br /> I would <b>extremely</b> appreciate it if someone could take 6 minutes to watch this and correct me as I have nobody else <img src="https://www.physicsforums.com/styles/physicsforums/xenforo/smilies/oldschool/redface.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":redface:" title="Red Face :redface:" data-shortname=":redface:" /> to explain it to me.<br /> <br /> What I think is going on is that he is trying to prove a least upper bound or something and that this will show that the real line can be continuously divided, or something. </div> </div> </blockquote>
 
Thanks a lot HallsofIvy for clearing that up!
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
7K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
4K
  • · Replies 32 ·
2
Replies
32
Views
4K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K