Definition of manifolds with boundary

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the definition of manifolds with boundary in the context of differential geometry. Participants explore the implications of defining boundary points in relation to charts and the differences between topological manifolds and those with boundaries.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant defines the boundary of a manifold ##M## as points ##p \in M## that can be mapped to the boundary of ##\mathbb{H}^n## through a chart, suggesting a specific alteration in definition compared to topological spaces.
  • Another participant emphasizes the distinction between the necessity of mapping boundary points to the boundary of ##\mathbb{H}^n## and the existence of a chart where this mapping occurs.
  • A further contribution reiterates the understanding that if a point ##p \in M## lies within a chart and maps to the boundary of ##\mathbb{H}^n##, then it is considered a boundary point of ##M##.
  • One participant argues that the definition does not fundamentally alter the boundary concept from that of topological spaces, asserting that ##\partial \mathbb{H}## is the boundary of ##\mathbb{H}## and that the chart serves as a homeomorphism.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the definition of boundary points in manifolds with boundary represents a significant alteration from topological definitions. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives on the necessity and implications of the definitions presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the lack of clarity regarding the necessity of mapping boundary points to the boundary of ##\mathbb{H}^n## and the implications of using charts in defining boundaries, indicating potential limitations in understanding the definitions and their applications.

PhysicsRock
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TL;DR
Why do we define manifolds with boundary differently from the topological definition of the boundary?
In differential geometry, we typically define the boundary ##\partial M## of a manifold ##M## as all ##p \in M## for which there exists a chart ##(U,\varphi), p \in U## such that ##\varphi(p) \in \partial\mathbb{H}^n := \{ x \in \mathbb{R}^n : x^n = 0 \}##. Consequently, we also demand that ##M## is locally homeomorphic to ##\mathbb{H}^n := \{ x \in \mathbb{R}^n : x^n \geq 0 \}##, instead of ##\mathbb{R}^n## as in the (usually) previously encountered definitions of topological manifolds.

For such topological manifolds, the boundary is typically defined to be the closure of ##M## without it's interior, i.e. ##\partial M_{top} = \bar{M} \setminus \mathring{M}##. Perhaps I'm missing something, but theoretically I don't see any restrictions in this definition that would demand that boundary points are to be mapped onto the boundary of ##\mathbb{H}^n##.

My question is, why do we make that alteration?
 
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PhysicsRock said:
theoretically I don't see any restrictions in this definition that would demand that boundary points are to be mapped onto the boundary of Hn.
There is a big difference between needing to be mapped like that and there existing a chart where it is.
 
Orodruin said:
There is a big difference between needing to be mapped like that and there existing a chart where it is.

Orodruin said:
There is a big difference between needing to be mapped like that and there existing a chart where it is.
The way I understand it is that if a point ##p \in M## lies within a chart ##(U,\varphi)## and ##\varphi(p) \in \partial\mathbb{H}^n## then ##p## is considered to be a boundary point. The set of all such ##p## is then called the boundary of ##M##.

However, what I don't understand is why we alter the definition from that of the boundary of topological spaces, as given here.
 
PhysicsRock said:
However, what I don't understand is why we alter the definition from that of the boundary of topological spaces, as given here.
It doesn't, really. It should be clear that ##\partial \mathbb H## is the boundary of ##\mathbb H## and the chart is a homeomorphism.
 

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