Del operator in different coordinate

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around transforming the Del operator from rectangular coordinates to spherical coordinates and finding the Laplace operator in spherical coordinates.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to apply a transformation matrix to convert the Del operator and raises questions about the next steps to achieve the desired form of the operator in spherical coordinates. Other participants suggest that solving simultaneous equations may be necessary to reach the correct form. Additionally, one participant shares their approach of differentiating the coordinate transformations to derive the components of the Del operator.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants exploring different methods to derive the Del operator in spherical coordinates. Some guidance has been offered regarding the need for simultaneous equations and differentiation, but no consensus has been reached on the correct approach or resolution of the problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraints of homework rules, which may limit the information they can share or the methods they can use. There is also a discussion about the interpretation of mathematical notation, particularly regarding parentheses in the context of the Laplace operator.

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Homework Statement


I would like to transform the Del operator form rectangular coordinate system to spherical coordinate system. The find the Laplace operator in spherical coordinate.


2. The attempt at a solution
1) In rectangular coordinate system, Del operator is given by

<br /> \nabla = \frac{\partial }{\partial x}\hat{x} + \frac{\partial }{\partial y}\hat{y} + \frac{\partial }{\partial z}\hat{z}<br />

I know if you want to transform a vector in one coordinate system to a corresponding vector in other coordinate system, you got to know the transformation (matrix). For spherical coordinate system, the transformation matrix is given

<br /> M = \left(<br /> \begin{matrix}<br /> \sin\theta\cos\varphi &amp; \sin\theta\sin\varphi &amp; \cos\theta \\<br /> \cos\theta\cos\varphi &amp; \cos\theta\sin\varphi &amp; -\sin\theta \\<br /> -\sin\varphi &amp; \cos\varphi &amp; 0<br /> \end{matrix}<br /> \right)<br />

So that any vector \vec{r} = u_x \hat{x} + u_y \hat{y} + u_z \hat{z} will be transformed as

<br /> \left(<br /> \begin{matrix}<br /> u_r \\ u_\theta \\ u_\varphi <br /> \end{matrix}<br /> \right)<br /> =<br /> M<br /> \left(<br /> \begin{matrix}<br /> u_x \\ u_y \\ u_x <br /> \end{matrix}<br /> \right)<br />

Similarly, I apply the same transformation to Del operator

<br /> \left(<br /> \begin{matrix}<br /> \frac{\partial}{\partial r} \\ \\ \frac{\partial}{\partial \theta} \\ \\ \frac{\partial}{\partial \varphi} <br /> \end{matrix}<br /> \right)<br /> =<br /> M<br /> \left(<br /> \begin{matrix}<br /> \frac{\partial}{\partial x} \\ \\ \frac{\partial}{\partial y} \\ \\ \frac{\partial}{\partial z} \end{matrix}<br /> \right)<br />

But if you multiply all terms out, for example, the first component of the result vector

<br /> \frac{\partial}{\partial r} = <br /> \sin\theta\cos\varphi \frac{\partial}{\partial x} + \sin\theta\sin\varphi \frac{\partial}{\partial y} + \cos\theta \frac{\partial}{\partial z}<br />

I don't know what to do next. How can I get the following result?

\nabla = \boldsymbol{\hat r}\frac{\partial}{\partial r} + \boldsymbol{\hat \theta}\frac{1}{r}\frac{\partial}{\partial \theta} + \boldsymbol{\hat \varphi}\frac{1}{r \sin\theta}\frac{\partial}{\partial \varphi}.

2) Suppose the Del operator in spherical coordinate is in above form. To find Laplace operator, just dot product the Del operator with itself

\nabla\cdot\nabla = \nabla^2 = \frac{\partial^2}{\partial r^2} + \frac{1}{r}\frac{\partial}{\partial \theta}\left(\frac{1}{r}\frac{\partial}{\partial \theta}\right) + \frac{1}{r \sin\theta}\frac{\partial}{\partial \varphi}\left(\frac{1}{r \sin\theta}\frac{\partial}{\partial \varphi}\right)

But I remember the Laplace operator in spherical coordinate is

\nabla^2 = {1 \over r^2} {\partial \over \partial r} \left( r^2 {\partial \over \partial r} \right) + {1 \over r^2 \sin \theta} {\partial \over \partial \theta} \left( \sin \theta {\partial \over \partial \theta} \right) + {1 \over r^2 \sin^2 \theta} {\partial^2 \over \partial \phi^2}.

I don't know what's wrong here! :(
 
Last edited:
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Doesn't it basically amount to solving simultaneous equations to get it in that form, for 1)
 
Here's how I basically started:

x = r sin(\theta) cos(\phi)
y = r sin(\theta) sin(\phi)
z = r cos(\theta)

So let's say we are trying to get the first term, let's differentiate each piece

\frac{\partial}{\partial x} = sin(\theta) cos(\phi) \frac{\partial}{\partial r} + ... some terms with partials w.r.t. theta and phi

Similarly for y and z we get

\frac{\partial}{\partial y} = sin(\theta) sin(\phi) \frac{\partial}{\partial r} + ...

\frac{\partial}{\partial z} = cos(\theta) \frac{\partial}{\partial r} + ...

Now look at your definition for gradient in Cartesian and just multiply and group so for our \frac{\partial}{\partial r} term we get

sin(\theta) cos(\phi) \frac{\partial}{\partial r} \cdot r sin(\theta) cos(\phi) + sin(\theta) sin(\phi) \frac{\partial}{\partial r} \cdot r sin(\theta) sin(\phi) + cos(\theta) \frac{\partial}{\partial r} \cdot r cos(\theta)

Now if you group and use trig identities you are left with:

\frac{\partial}{\partial r} r
 
For 2), do your parentheses indicate "argument of" or multiplication? I'm fairly certain in theirs they mean argument of
 

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