Derivation eqn motion particle rotating frame

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SUMMARY

The discussion focuses on the derivation of the equation of motion for a particle in a rotating frame, specifically addressing the relationship between the inertial velocity \( v_I \) and the rotational velocity \( v_R \) using the equation \( v_I = v_R + \omega \times r \). Participants clarify that the time derivative of \( v_I \) should indeed apply the product rule, assuming the angular velocity vector \( \omega \) is time-independent. The derivation can be approached using either \( \dot{v}_I|_{I} = \dot{v}_R|_{I} + \omega \times v_I \) or the alternative method involving \( \dot{v}_I|_{R} \), both leading to the same result.

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CMBR
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Homework Statement



So this isn't a homework problem but I don't know where else I am supposed to post for general help. I am basically trying to understand the derivation for the equation of motion of a particle in a rotating frame. See attachment for derivation and which steps I am stuck on.

Homework Equations


The Attempt at a Solution


From where the yellow dots are marked is where I get confused, since v_I=v_R+w\times r
why does: \dot{v}_I|_{I} = \dot{v}_R|_{I} + w\times v_I there's 2 reasons this step is confusing me, if I am taking a time derivative of v_I=v_R+w\times r shouldn't I be using the product rule on the 2nd term in the RHS \dot{v}_I|_{I} = \dot{v}_R|_{I} + \frac{\mathrm{d} }{\mathrm{d} t}[w\times r]|_{I} ?

Secondly if that's just wrong the derivation does say to use (1.2.5) but then the 1st term on the RHS should be \dot{v}_I|_{R} instead of \dot{v}_R|_{I} no? But if that is the case then I don't see how to get to the step after that either... Really could use some help, thanks in advance.
[EDIT: I should specify that the I and R means inertial and rotational respectively]
 

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Hello, CMBR. Welcome to PF!

CMBR said:
From where the yellow dots are marked is where I get confused, since v_I=v_R+w\times r
why does: \dot{v}_I|_{I} = \dot{v}_R|_{I} + w\times v_I there's 2 reasons this step is confusing me, if I am taking a time derivative of v_I=v_R+w\times r shouldn't I be using the product rule on the 2nd term in the RHS \dot{v}_I|_{I} = \dot{v}_R|_{I} + \frac{\mathrm{d} }{\mathrm{d} t}[w\times r]|_{I} ?

Yes, you would use the product rule. It must be that the text is assuming that the ##\omega## vector is time independent.

Secondly if that's just wrong the derivation does say to use (1.2.5) but then the 1st term on the RHS should be \dot{v}_I|_{R} instead of \dot{v}_R|_{I} no? But if that is the case then I don't see how to get to the step after that either... Really could use some help, thanks in advance.

You can derive the result this way, also. That is, you can use (1.2.5) at the beginning to write \dot{v}_I|_{I} = \dot{v}_I|_{R} + \omega\times v_I Then use (1.3.1) for the ##v_{I}##'s on the right side.

The text approach is to first use (1.3.1) and then use the fact that the derivative of a sum is equal to the sum of the derivatives: \dot{v}_I|_{I} = \left. \frac{d}{dt}(v_R + \omega\times r) \right|_{I} = \dot{v}_R|_{I} + \omega\times v_I
Either approach will yield the same result.

Note $$\dot{v}_R|_{I} \equiv \left. \frac{d v_R}{dt} \right |_I$$ $$\dot{v}_I|_{R} \equiv \left. \frac{d v_I}{dt} \right |_R$$

etc.
 

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