Derivative of (2/x) + (1/y) = 4 and

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the derivatives of the equations \(\frac{2}{x} + \frac{1}{y} = 4\) and \(2y + x = 4xy\), particularly under the conditions that \(x \neq 0\) and \(y \neq 0\). Participants explore the implications of implicit differentiation and algebraic manipulation in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the two equations are equivalent under the condition that \(x \neq 0\) and \(y \neq 0\), suggesting that implicit differentiation would yield the same derivative values.
  • Others argue that one can show the equivalence by manipulating the original equation, specifically by multiplying by \(xy\), which is valid only when both \(x\) and \(y\) are non-zero.
  • A participant questions whether differentiating each equation and manipulating the derivatives would lead to equivalence, emphasizing the importance of the non-zero condition.
  • Another participant clarifies that it is not accurate to refer to the "derivative of an equation," but rather to differentiate both sides with respect to a variable.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the two equations are equivalent under the specified conditions, but there is some debate regarding the methods of demonstrating this equivalence and the terminology used in discussing derivatives.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the assumption that \(x\) and \(y\) are non-zero, which affects the validity of certain manipulations and the definition of the functions involved.

autodidude
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Can you somehow show that the derivative of [tex]\frac{2}{x}+\frac{1}{y}=4[/tex] is the same as [tex]2y+x=4xy[/tex] if x≠0 and y≠0? Or is that not true?
 
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autodidude said:
Can you somehow show that the derivative of [tex]\frac{2}{x}+\frac{1}{y}=4[/tex] is the same as [tex]2y+x=4xy[/tex] if x≠0 and y≠0? Or is that not true?

Yes you can do this (provided your condition that you have non-zero values for y and x) since algebraically both are equivalent (again assuming non-zero values).

The rest is going to be implicit differentiation, but again you have to consider that there will be holes at x = 0 and also at y = 0 where the function is defined for either of these values.
 
Thanks chiro. To do so, would you just differentiate each equation and manipulate one of the derivatives until it's equivalent to the other? (again, with x and y no equal to 0
 
You don't even have to do that much. just multiply the original equation by [itex]x y[/itex]. You will get the second equation. Multiplying by [itex]x y[/itex] is justified only when:
[tex] x y \neq 0 \Leftrightarrow x \neq 0 \wedge y \neq 0[/tex]
 
Is this your question?
autodidude said:
Can you somehow show that the derivative of [tex]\frac{2}{x}+\frac{1}{y}=4[/tex] is the same as the derivative of[/color] [tex]2y+x=4xy[/tex] if x≠0 and y≠0? Or is that not true?

As Dickfore already said, the two equations are equivalent, as long as x≠0 and y≠0, so implicit differentiation would produce the same values for dy/dx in both equations. Keep in mind that it makes no sense to talk about the "derivative of an equation." You can implicitly differentiate both sides of an equation with respect to some variable, though, and then solve algebraically for dy/dx (or whatever derivative you're looking for).
 
Thanks guys
 

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