Derivatives - differentiabilty, continuity, unbounded

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the differentiability and continuity of the function g(x) defined piecewise with a parameter a. Participants are tasked with finding specific values of a that affect the differentiability and boundedness of the derivative g'.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the conditions under which g is differentiable and the implications for g'. There is confusion regarding the concept of unboundedness and how it relates to the derivative g'. Some participants attempt to analyze the derivative and its behavior as x approaches 0, while others question the definitions and implications of boundedness.

Discussion Status

There is ongoing exploration of the relationship between the parameter a and the properties of g and g'. Some participants have provided insights into the conditions for differentiability and continuity, while others are still grappling with the concept of unboundedness. Multiple interpretations of the problem are being discussed without a clear consensus.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the definitions of boundedness and unboundedness are not explicitly covered in their current chapter, leading to confusion. The problem involves specific conditions for differentiability and continuity that may not be straightforward, particularly at the point x=0.

kathrynag
Messages
595
Reaction score
0
Let g(x) =x^asin(1/x) if x is not 0
g(x)=0 if x=0

Find a particular value for a such that
a) g is differentiable on R but such that g' is unbounded on [0,1].
b) g is differentiable on R with g' continuous but not differentiable at zero
c) g is differentiable on R but and g' is differentiable on R, but such that g'' is not continuous at zero.


I've only started on a) but I got a little stuck
Well I know that a function is differentiable if g' exists for all points.
I started by calculating derivatives:
g'(x)=ax^(a-1)sin(1/x)-x^(a-2)cos(1/x) if x is not zero.
Now for x=0, we have:
g'(0)=limg(x)-g(0)/x-0=limg(x)/x=limx^(a-1)sin(1/x)
I know xsin(1/x) does not exist, but for all other x, g'(0) does exist. Then g'(0) exists and equals 0 if provided a>2.
So g is differentiable provided a>2.
Now the part that confuses me is the unboundedness. I looked in this particular chapter of my book and there was no mention of boundedness at all.
So from previous chapters, I had that a sequence (xn) is bounded if there exists a number M>0 such that |xn|<=M for all n in N. I just am really confused on the unboundedness part.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
kathrynag said:
Let g(x) =xasin(1/x) if x is not 0
g(x)=0 if x=0

Find a particular value for a such that
a) g is differentiable on R but such that g' is unbounded on [0,1].
b) g is differentiable on R with g' continuous but not differentiable at zero
c) g is differentiable on R but and g' is differentiable on R, but such that g'' is not continuous at zero.


I've only started on a) but I got a little stuck
Well I know that a function is differentiable if g' exists for all points.
I started by calculating derivatives:
g'(x)=ax(a-1)sin(1/x)-x(a-2)cos(1/x) if x is not zero.
Now for x=0, we have:
g'(0)=limg(x)-g(0)/x-0=limg(x)/x=limx^(a-1)sin(1/x)
I know xsin(1/x) does not exist, but for all other x, g'(0) does exist. Then g'(0) exists and equals 0 if provided a>2.
So g is differentiable provided a>2.
Now the part that confuses me is the unboundedness. I looked in this particular chapter of my book and there was no mention of boundedness at all.
So from previous chapters, I had that a sequence (xn) is bounded if there exists a number M>0 such that |xn|<=M for all n in N. I just am really confused on the unboundedness part.


Hi Kathryn.

Part (a) is rather troublesome.

g(x) is differentiable on R, (except for x = 0, for some values of a). Definitely, for values of a for which g(x) is unbounded on [0, 1], g'(0) does not exist, since in those cases, g(x) is not continuous at x=0.

Your differentiation, g'(x) = ax(a-1)sin(1/x)-x(a-2)cos(1/x) is correct. Of course, this is undefined for x=0.
Another form you can put g'(x) into is:
g'(x) = x(a-2)(a·x·sin(1/x) - cos(1/x))

What you did to check on g'(0), won't work.
Now for x=0, we have:
g'(0)=limg(x)-g(0)/x-0=limg(x)/x=limx^(a-1)sin(1/x)

To determine if g'(0) exists, consider the limit.

limx→0 g'(x).

If this limit exists, you can argue that g is differentiable at x=0.

Graph g(x) and g'(x) for various values of a - I would suggest integer & a few half integer values from a = -1 to a = 4.

In particular look at WolframAlpha.

g(x), a=0 and g'(x), a=0

g(x), a=2 and g'(x), a=2

One sequence to look at is yn = g'(xn), where xn = 1/(π n), especially for a = 2.
 
Ok, but I'm still confused on what they mean by unbounded.
 
kathrynag said:
...
Now the part that confuses me is the unboundedness. I looked in this particular chapter of my book and there was no mention of boundedness at all.
So from previous chapters, I had that a sequence (xn) is bounded if there exists a number M>0 such that |xn|<=M for all n in N. I just am really confused on the unboundedness part.
kathrynag said:
OK, but I'm still confused on what they mean by unbounded.
Unbounded: You can say this in any of several ways.

(xn) is unbounded means: For any M > 0, there exists an n ϵ N, such that |xn| > M .

f(x) is unbounded on [0, 1] means that for any M > 0, there exists an x0 ϵ [0,1] such that |f(x0)| > M .



Did you look at g'(1/(n π))?

g'(1/(n π)) = (1/(n π))(a-2){a·x·sin(1/[1/(n π)]) - cos(1/[1/(n π)])}

= (1/(n π))(a-2){a·(1/(n π))·sin(n π) - cos(n π)}

= - (-1)n(1/(n π))(a-2),     because, sin(n π) = 0, and cos(n π) = (-1)n = ±1 .

If the absolute value of the above sequence diverges for any a, then the sequence and g'(x) are unbounded for that value of a.

If the absolute value of the above sequence converges to any L ≠ 0 for any a, then the sequence and g'(x) are bounded (but g'(x) is not continuous at x=0) for that value of a.

If the absolute value of the above sequence converges to 0 for any a, then the sequence and g'(x) are bounded (and g'(x) is continuous at x=0), for that value of a.
 
BTW:

Are you sure that part (a) isn't something like:

g is [STRIKE]differentiable[/STRIKE] continuous on R but such that g' is unbounded on [0,1].

That would make [STRIKE]more[/STRIKE] sense.
 
SammyS said:
BTW:

Are you sure that part (a) isn't something like:

g is [STRIKE]differentiable[/STRIKE] continuous on R but such that g' is unbounded on [0,1].

That would make [STRIKE]more[/STRIKE] sense.

No, I'm sure
 
So g' unbounded means we want for M>0, there exists x0 in [0,1] such that |g'(x0)|>M
We had g'(x) = ax^(a-1)sin(1/x)-x^(a-2)cos(1/x)
Now we want |ax^(a-1)sin(1/x)-x^(a-2)cos(1/x)|>M
We know limx^(a-1)sin(1/x)=0, so we are only concerned with -x^(a-2)cos(1/x)
So to be unbounded, we want a>2?
 
kathrynag said:
So g' unbounded means we want for M>0, there exists x0 in [0,1] such that |g'(x0)|>M
We had g'(x) = ax^(a-1)sin(1/x)-x^(a-2)cos(1/x)
Now we want |ax^(a-1)sin(1/x)-x^(a-2)cos(1/x)|>M
We know limx^(a-1)sin(1/x)=0, so we are only concerned with -x^(a-2)cos(1/x)
So to be unbounded, we want a>2?
Sorry Kathryn, I've been away for a day.

The answer to your final question in the quoted post is "No." If β>0, then xβ → 0 as x → 0.

Please try g'(1/(n·π)).
 

Similar threads

Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K