Designing a digital eyepiece camera

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the design of a digital eyepiece camera for capturing images through a slit lamp, which is used in eye examinations. Participants explore optical engineering concepts related to eyepieces, camera lenses, and image capture methods, seeking to improve existing setups for better image quality and field of view.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes their experience using a digital camera behind the eyepiece of a slit lamp and expresses a desire to develop a device that captures a wider view of the eye.
  • Questions are raised about the differences between eyepiece lenses and standard camera lenses, with a participant seeking clarity on whether they can replace the eyepiece with their own lens.
  • There is a request for recommendations on sources for suitable lenses and sensors that can be mounted for this application.
  • Observations are shared regarding the effects of different lens combinations on image size and magnification, indicating a lack of expected outcomes.
  • Another participant provides a link to a basic overview of eyepieces and suggests looking for eyepiece adapters or non-magnifying couplers to improve the setup.
  • A later reply mentions a separate forum where further discussions on the project can be continued, indicating a potential shift in the conversation's venue.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion does not reach a consensus, as participants express varying levels of understanding and propose different approaches to the optical design challenges presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the specific optical requirements and the compatibility of different lenses and sensors, highlighting the complexity of integrating these components into a functional device.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in optical engineering, medical imaging, and DIY camera design may find this discussion relevant, particularly those working with microscopes or similar optical devices.

mikemyers
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I have an optical design question - hopefully this is the right forum in which to ask. It is "engineer", but it's really optical engineering...
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I am wondering if someone can help me out here with a few questions. I do volunteer work at an eye hospital in India, and we would like to take photos of patient’s eyes, as viewed through a “slit lamp” (the device doctors use when you get an eye exam).

The slit lamp is essentially a microscope. There are optics within the slit lamp, and then there is an eyepiece that you look through to view an enlarged image of the eye. Basically, I assume it is more or less “the same” as a microscope, a pair of binoculars, or a telescope, but with much less power.

We have already developed a method of placing a small digital camera right behind the eyepiece, and we can capture excellent images this way. We have been doing this for years.

In looking around for a better way to capture images, we found a device that is designed to drop into a microscope, replacing the eyepiece, record the image on a digital sensor, and display the image on a computer when connected to a USB port.

Here is a link to one of those devices:
http://www.aunet.com.au/dinoeye_am423.htm

The device works perfectly, but shows a greatly enlarged image of a small part of the eye. This is good for a microscope, but far too powerful for a slit lamp, where we want to see a lot more of the eye, not just a tiny part of it.

We would like to make a device like this, optically designed for our needs. My problem is that while I do know and understand “camera lenses”, I don’t know where to even start on this project.

(Either I need a device that shows more of the subject on the small sensor in the DinoEye, or perhaps the lens is fine, and I just need a larger sensor that covers more area?)

Can someone please help me with the following:

a) What is the difference between an “eyepiece lens” and a normal lens that one might use in front of film or a digital sensor? If there is no difference, can I just put my own lens into the microscope (slit lamp) and put a digital sensor behind it?

b) Are there any good sources in the USA or India where I can purchase a lens for this purpose? I know about Edmund Scientific Company, but I wasn’t able to find anything that might work (possibly because I know so little about what I’m looking for).

c) Are there any good sources for a sensor with USB electronics, that I can mount my own lens to?



If I understood more about how an eyepiece works, I would have a better idea of what I need to find, but I think it is very different from a “camera lens”; a lens for a camera is fully self-contained, and the only thing between the subject and the film/sensor. With a microscope, there already are optics in the system ahead of the eyepiece. Maybe someone here can point me in the right direction to find the information I need? Thanks in advance!

(I have spent some time trying to understand what’s going on. The best resource I have found to date is http://www.birdwatching.com/optics/how_binoculars_work.html and I did take two Nikon camera lenses, as instructed, and sure enough, they did work exactly like a telescope/microscope, enlarging what I was looking at. I used a 200mm “objective” lens and a 50 mm “eyepiece lens”. What I need to do now, is replace the “eyepiece lens” with an appropriate lens and a digital sensor for capturing the image. That is the lens that I need to understand, and to pick one that has a large enough “field of view” to see everything that a doctor might see when looking through the eyepiece of a slit lamp.)


Observations so far:
1 - when using a 50mm lens as the Objective lens, and a 200mm lens as the eyepiece, the apparent size of things in the image are greatly reduced.

2 - when using the 200mm lens as the objective lens, and a 50mm lens as the eyepiece, I end up with something that seems like "2x power binoculars"; everything seems to be twice as large as looking directly at the object.

3 - when using a 200mm lens as the objective lens, and a 20mm lens as the eyepiece, I get something that seems like "6x power binoculars", with a much larger image size. (This is the opposite of what I expected!)
 
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Apparently this was not a good place to ask the above questions. Can anyone suggest a better place?
 
Welcome to PhysicsForums!

The very basic information on an eyepiece:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyepiece

That said, how are you looking to improve the setup? Just with a camera that can connect to USB or without having to strap it on?

Most (microscope) eyepieces have a magnification etched on it--any chance yours does as well? If so, you can probably find an eyepiece adapter with the same magnification. Barring that, perhaps a non-magnifying microscope coupler would suffice for your existing camera (or another one with USB output)?
http://www.edmundoptics.com/onlinecatalog/displayproduct.cfm?productid=2416

EDIT: Oops, that's just the adapter rings! From Anchor Optics (a division of Edmund):
http://www.anchoroptics.com/catalog/product.cfm?id=214&s=p&d=d
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks for the help - I've been working on this for a long time, and the discussions, with a short movie of what we built, can be found here:

http://www.sgrid.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?37-Slit-Lamp-Camera-Design

Maybe that's a better place to continue this discussion. If anyone is interested, please join us there.
 

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