Determine a matrix C such that T = CA has echelon form

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    Echelon Form Matrix
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining a matrix \( C \) such that the product \( T = CA \) results in a matrix \( T \) in Row Echelon Form (REF). Participants explore the application of the Gauss algorithm and the differences between Row Echelon Form and Reduced Row Echelon Form (RREF).

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes using the Gauss algorithm on the augmented matrix \([A \mid I_3]\) to find \( C \) and questions whether it is acceptable to stop at an earlier echelon form.
  • Another participant clarifies the distinction between Row Echelon Form and Reduced Row Echelon Form, noting the specific requirements for RREF.
  • There is a suggestion that the proposed solution may have gone beyond what was necessary for Row Echelon Form, indicating a potential disagreement on the extent of row operations needed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the solution provided is appropriate for Row Echelon Form or if it unnecessarily extends to Reduced Row Echelon Form. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the sufficiency of the operations performed.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss the implications of stopping the Gauss algorithm at different stages and the definitions of the forms involved, which may depend on specific interpretations of the exercise requirements.

mathmari
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Hey! :o

Let $$A=\begin{pmatrix}1 & 2 & 3 \\ 4 & 5 & 6 \\ 7 & 8 & 9\end{pmatrix}\in \mathbb{R}^{3\times 3}$$

I want to determine a matrix $C\in GL_3(\mathbb{R})$ such that $T:=C\cdot A$ has echelon form. Performing an elementary row operation is equivalent to multiplying an invertible matrix, right? (Wondering)

So do we apply the Gauss algorithm at $[A \ \mid \ I_3]$, and bring $A$ into echelon form, then the $3\times 3$-matrix that we get on the right side is the matrix $C$ that we are looking for, i.e. we get $[T \ \mid \ C]$ ?

I mean the following:
\begin{equation*}\begin{pmatrix}1 & 2 & 3 & 1 & 0 & 0 \\ 4 & 5 & 6 & 0 & 1 & 0\\ 7 & 8 & 9 & 0 & 0 & 1\end{pmatrix}\longrightarrow \begin{pmatrix}1 & 2 & 3 & 1 & 0 & 0 \\ 0 & -3 & -6 & -4 & 1 & 0\\ 0 & -6 & -12 & -7 & 0 & 1\end{pmatrix}\longrightarrow \begin{pmatrix}1 & 2 & 3 & 1 & 0 & 0 \\ 0 & -3 & -6 & -4 & 1 & 0\\ 0 & 0 & 0 & 1 & -2 & 1\end{pmatrix}\end{equation*}
(Wondering)

At the proposed solution they continue the Gauss algorithm and they get the following:
\begin{equation*}\begin{pmatrix}1 & 2 & 3 & 1 & 0 & 0 \\ 4 & 5 & 6 & 0 & 1 & 0\\ 7 & 8 & 9 & 0 & 0 & 1\end{pmatrix}\longrightarrow \begin{pmatrix}1 & 2 & 3 & 1 & 0 & 0 \\ 0 & -3 & -6 & -4 & 1 & 0\\ 0 & -6 & -12 & -7 & 0 & 1\end{pmatrix}\longrightarrow \begin{pmatrix}1 & 2 & 3 & 1 & 0 & 0 \\ 0 & 1 & 2 & \frac{4}{3} & -\frac{1}{3} & 0\\ 0 & 0 & 0 & 1 & -2 & 1\end{pmatrix} \longrightarrow \begin{pmatrix}1 & 0 & -1 & -\frac{5}{3} & \frac{2}{3} & 0 \\ 0 & 1 & 2 & \frac{4}{3} & -\frac{1}{3} & 0\\ 0 & 0 & 0 & 1 & -2 & 1\end{pmatrix}\end{equation*} Why do they change also the first two rows although we already have the echelon form? Would it be wrong to stop the algrithm as I did it? I mean is it wrong to consider the matrices \begin{equation*}T=\begin{pmatrix}1 & 2 & 3 \\ 0 & -3 & -6 \\ 0 & 0 & 0 \end{pmatrix} \ \text{ and } \ C=\begin{pmatrix}1 & 0 & 0 \\ -4 & 1 & 0 \\ 1 & -2 & 1\end{pmatrix}\end{equation*} ? (Wondering)
 
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Hey mathmari!

There's a difference between Row Echelon Form (REF) and Reduced Row Echelon Form (RREF).
RREF means that:
  • It is in row echelon form.
  • Every leading coefficient is 1.
  • The leading coefficient is the only nonzero entry in its column.
(Thinking)
 
I like Serena said:
There's a difference between Row Echelon Form (REF) and Reduced Row Echelon Form (RREF).
RREF means that:
  • It is in row echelon form.
  • Every leading coefficient is 1.
  • The leading coefficient is the only nonzero entry in its column.
(Thinking)

At the exercise statement it is asked for Row Echelon Form:

View attachment 8386

So is the proposed solution for the case of Reduced Row Echelon Form and in the case of Row Echelon Form we could also do what I did? (Wondering)
 

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mathmari said:
At the exercise statement it is asked for Row Echelon Form:



So is the proposed solution for the case of Reduced Row Echelon Form and in the case of Row Echelon Form we could also do what I did? (Wondering)

Yep.
It looks as if the proposed solution went 'over the top'. (Emo)
 
I like Serena said:
Yep.
It looks as if the proposed solution went 'over the top'. (Emo)

Ok! Thank you! (Yes)
 

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