Determine max force and acceleration to safely make a turn

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the maximum force and acceleration required to safely navigate a turn, given the coefficient of static friction and an estimated radius of the turn. The subject area includes concepts from dynamics and friction.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the use of free-body diagrams and force equations to analyze the problem. There are attempts to calculate maximum acceleration and velocity based on the given friction coefficient and radius. Questions arise regarding the necessity of the vehicle's mass for calculating force and whether a numerical value is required.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing guidance on the interpretation of the problem and questioning the assumptions about the vehicle's mass. There is recognition that the absence of mass complicates the calculation of force, and some participants suggest that the problem may not require a numerical force value.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the lack of information regarding the vehicle's mass, which is a critical factor in determining force. There is also mention of the potential ambiguity in the problem's wording regarding the need for a numerical answer.

bornofflame
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Homework Statement


The coefficient of static friction between a tire and a dry road is about μs=0.85. What is the fastest you can safely drive the turn below?
a. Use a free-body diagram and force equations to determine the maximum force and acceleration you can achieve.
b. Use the map to estimate the radius and maximum velocity of the turn.

I don't have the map readily available but the radius is estimated at approximately 110m.

Homework Equations


F = ma
f ≤ μsN
fmax = μs-maxN
W = mg
a = V2/r

The Attempt at a Solution


a[/B].
p101-test2-redo-1.png


I drew my force diagrams and got the following (repeated from image):
y: N - mg = may = 0, so: N = mg
x: f = max = μN = μmg, so: ax = μg

amax = μg = (0.85)(9.8m/s2) = 8.33m/s2

b. r = 110m, Vmax = ?
a = V2 / r, so: V2 = ar, and V = ±√(ar),
which means:
Vmax = ±√(a⊥-maxr) = ±√(8.33m/s2⋅110m)=±30.3m/s
I'm satisfied with my answer for part b, but am including it just in case there is something that is wrong with it. My main concern, however, is part a as I can't seem to figure out how to get the Fmax which I am assuming is friction max because that is the only force at work keeping the vehicle from sliding off the road.
 

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If you know amax and you know that Fnet = ma, what do you think Fnet, max might be?
Also, I would drop the ± signs. You are calculating magnitudes of vectors here.
 
If you aren't given the mass of the vehicle, then I don't think you can get a numerical value for the force.
 
TSny said:
If you aren't given the mass of the vehicle, then I don't think you can get the force.
Oops, I didn't notice that it's not given. :oops:
 
kuruman said:
Also, I would drop the ± signs. You are calculating magnitudes of vectors here.

Ok. I'll keep that in mind. I was thinking to keep it b/c I was thinking of velocity as a vector, but it's definitely asking what is the fastest. Thanks for pointing that out.

TSny said:
If you aren't given the mass of the vehicle, then I don't think you can get a numerical value for the force.

Yeah. Unfortunately no mass which is what's blocking me.
 
bornofflame said:
Unfortunately no mass which is what's blocking me.
I'm not sure it wants a numerical value for that. The way it is worded, it could just be telling you the steps to go through to find the speed.
 
haruspex said:
I'm not sure it wants a numerical value for that. The way it is worded, it could just be telling you the steps to go through to find the speed.

Okay. I wasn't sure that there was a way to replace mass that I just wasn't seeing. I'll follow up with my professor. Thanks.
 

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