Determine the elevator's acceleration

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves an 82 kg man inside a 40-kg dumbwaiter, where the man pulls down on a rope, and the scale reads 209 N. The objective is to determine the elevator's acceleration, which relates to concepts in dynamics and forces.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss drawing free body diagrams and applying relevant equations. There is uncertainty about the impact of the rope and the forces acting on both the man and the dumbwaiter. Questions arise regarding the correct interpretation of forces, such as tension and normal force, and how they relate to the system's acceleration.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, exploring different interpretations of forces and equations. Some have offered guidance on considering the system as a whole, while others are questioning the assumptions made about the forces involved. There is a recognition of the need to account for multiple variables and forces in the equations.

Contextual Notes

There is a focus on Newton's laws and the relationship between forces exerted by the man and the dumbwaiter. Participants note the importance of distinguishing between the forces acting on the man and those acting on the dumbwaiter, as well as the implications of the system's acceleration on the normal force measured by the scale.

  • #31
kuruman said:
Up on the man and down on the elevator is correct. Your equation in post #22 is also correct. Where does your equation in post #24 come from?

My teacher explained to use two different equations when two variables are unknown, I was trying to find another equation to substitute T with
 
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  • #32
y90x said:
My teacher explained to use two different equations when two variables are unknown, I was trying to find another equation to substitute T with
You have the correct information for the man in post #5.

y90x said:
Fn=209N (the scale reading)
Fg=mg
=(82kg)(9.8) = 803.6 N

And the force exerted on the rope is T
So the formula would be,

(Fn +T)-Fg=ma

Am I wrong or missing something ?
Use 209 Newtons for Fn and mg for Fg, of course with 82 kg for the man's mass.

Then as @kuruman wrote, your equation in post #22 is correct.
y90x said:
Oh, I see
So then it’ll be
T-209N-40g=40a ?
Use those two equations to eliminate T (or eliminate a if you'd rather find the tension).
 
  • #33
y90x said:
Wouldn’t it be the other way around ? Up on the man and down on the dumbwaiter ?
Right, but in post #16 you had an equation for the dumb waiter with T...+Fn = ...
If the tension is acting upwards on the dumb waiter and the normal force is acting downwards then they cannot both be positive on the same side of tne equation.
 
  • #34
I have a suggestion for OP, @y90x. Why don't you write two equations for Newton's 2nd Law, Fnet = ma, one for which the system is the man and one for which the system is the dumbwaiter and in which only symbols appear, not numbers, and post them. One (or more) of us will review these equations and point out what is wrong (if anything) with them. At this point, it seems to me there is some tail-chasing going on here so a fresh start would be beneficial.
 
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