- 8,130
- 575
Have there been any recent developments in the attempt to unify the standard model of quantum theory with General Relativity? It appears the no progress has been made recently in string theory or loop quantum gravity.
The discussion revolves around recent developments in the unification of quantum theory with General Relativity, exploring the implications of incompleteness in physical theories and the philosophical aspects of mathematical logic in this context.
Participants express differing views on the implications of Gödel's theorems for physical theories, with no consensus on whether incompleteness can be proven in this context. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the relationship between mathematical logic and physical coherence.
Participants reference Gödel's theorems and their implications for mathematical systems, but the applicability of these concepts to physical theories is debated. The discussion highlights the complexity of defining coherence and completeness in the realm of theoretical physics.

What will make you a pessimist?mathman said:I am somewhat more optimistic. Godel was dealing in mathematics. I doubt if you can "prove" incompleteness for physical theories.
This seems like a total non sequitur to me. How do you get from true but not provable propositions in an axiomatic system to propositions that “won’t make sense”?MathematicalPhysicist said:Well a physical theory is constructed with maths, so the mathematics will be incomplete, and the physics won't make sense anyway, it's either inconsistent or incomplete.
Well "making sense" is with regards to classical logic.Nugatory said:This seems like a total non sequitur to me. How do you get from true but not provable propositions in an axiomatic system to propositions that “won’t make sense”?
Godel does not have "true but not provable" propositions. It has unprovable propositions that become axioms as you extend the maths. The axioms are neither true not false. You can accept them as true, or you can accept various negations of them as true. E.g. the unprovable generalized continuum hypothesis may be accepted or rejected according to taste.Nugatory said:This seems like a total non sequitur to me. How do you get from true but not provable propositions in an axiomatic system to propositions that “won’t make sense”?
It could be something like the Bell theorem for local hidden variables in quantum mechanics. The theorem might state that no theory can simultaneously have properties of being (i) quantum, (ii) general covariant and (iii) obeying some additional property that currently everybody takes for granted.mathman said:I am somewhat more optimistic. Godel was dealing in mathematics. I doubt if you can "prove" incompleteness for physical theories.