Did I Make the Right Decision During My Statistics Test?

[HungryChemist]

Okay, I am sorry if my title is little too aggressive but that's just how I feel about what happened during my statistics test. The test was long and hard. In the middle of the test, professor said if you're behind time, go little faster and don't worry too much about computing numbers. Obviously, it is better to go over all the problems(there were three) than finishing one completely. When I was done solving one problem, 30 minutes already past and now just 20 more minutes to go. So I said to myself, okay, now I will spend 10 minutes each to rest of the problems. To do that, I will have to compensate detail calculations and checking, but just keep write down to the point where I can get enough partial credits. So I carried out exactly I planned it. No problem. And then the time was up, instead of start collecting the paper, professor said she will give us 10 more minutes if that's what everybody want to do and unless there's people who have to leave. So there was a brief moment of students looking at each other to see if anybody reject her offer.

I rejected it. I politely told her that I have to leave.

I thought I did the right thing. The test was promised to be given for 50 minutes only. I planned the test for 50 minutes. If I knew I that I had 10 more minutes, I could have fixed my mistakes all along the test. But obviously, when we were all leaving out of class, I could see couple (or many) students were upset and looked at me like I killed their dog. But I am sure some of us had to leave the class anyway for the next class.

The class has no absolute grading system. Everything will be curved. So either way it didn't really matter. Then why am I so pissed?

I am pissed because there were students who were pissed at me. Frankly, I didn't think that people would get mad at me. I must have thought that they must share my logic when I decided to rejected extra 10 minutes. So now I am not really sure if what I did was selfish act. I don't want to be a selfish gunner so I am really pissed for what I did. As you can see, I am confused. I feel like I became a scapegoat. Professor should never have offered such extra time. She should have known better.

Blame me or support me, I just want to hear what you have done in such case.

 

[cristo]

Well, from the way you say that if you had accepted the offer of an extra ten minutes, then you would have been able to correct some of the errors in your paper, then I would probably have said nothing and taken the extra time; but that's just my personal answer!

Besides, this can't be a very important test as the teacher wouldn't be allowed to just add extra time at the end if she wanted to. I wouldn't worry about your classmates being pissed with you; someone else will do something tomorrow for them to get annoyed with and they'll forget about why they were pissed with you!

 

[light_bulb]

i've seen someone get mad because one guy was answering all the questions, whatever you do don't come across as too smart or you'll get the wrath of everyone else in the class. i can picture eveyone elses face get red as one guy gets done before everyone else

in bizzaro land (school) if you excel to much you'll have to pay for it socialy.

if your good at anything hide it.

 

[mr_coffee]

Well, if I was taking an exam, and the professor said, i'll give you an extra 10 mins (my eyes would light up, I could finally double check or finish that problem I wasn't 100% sure on) and then hearing a follow student reject the extra time, trying to screw me out of my grade I would get pissed.

Because it doesn't matter if its logical or not, its cheating the other students of extra time to fix their little mistakes they made because they might not have planned it out like you did.

If you didn't want the extra 10 mins you could have just gave the professor the exam and left without saying anything.

Heres my theory:
The reason your upset is, you planned better than the other students, but given that extra 10 mins, you wouldn't be able to modify your version of your answers to give you those extra points, but instead you probably would have messed yourself up worse if you did try to do the actual calculations or it would just be too messy/crammed with words and numbers to make any sense or you thought well I followed what the professor said so now here is my reward.

But the students who did do the actual calculations, that extra 10 mins probably gave them the advantage over you.

But without the 10 mins you had the advantage over them.

But that's just my theory!As the above poster said, you can't act like a know it all either, or you will be disliked. It happens in all classes/schools.

I don't like this kid in one of my comp sci classes who asks every single question in the world, trying to outsmart the professor even though his questions have no relevance or his solutions he thinks are right don't make any sense.

 

[light_bulb]

I don't like this kid in one of my comp sci classes who asks every single question in the world, trying to outsmart the professor even though his questions have no relevance or his solutions he thinks are right don't make any sense.

wonder what the professor thinks?

 

[chroot]

I think you need to lighten up a little bit; it's just a test.

- Warren

 

[cristo]

if your good at anything hide it.

That's probably the single worst piece of advice I've ever heard. What's the point in putting on an act and pretending you're someone else? Even if then more people like you, they aren't going to like you are they? They're going to like some fake version of you that pretends they're someone else because they're too scared of what people think .

As the above poster said, you can't act like a know it all either, or you will be disliked.

I agree with this-- but there's a big difference between being good at something and being a know it all.

 

[out of whack]

HungryChemist, I would have done what you did. Everyone knew the test duration from the start and planned their work accordingly so nobody has any justifiable complaint. Changing the allocated time at the last minute rewards sloppy planners at the expense of good planners. Ignore critics, don't make their problems your own.

 

[dontdisturbmycircles]

It probably won't matter in a week. You did what you thought was right so just let it be.

 

[Evo]

It doesn't matter what you planned for, there was a chance for an extra ten minutes for everyone. I'm assuming that everyone had only planned the test to last 50 minutes, that doesn't mean that they wouldn't welcome the extra time. If you could have spared the extra ten minutes and you were the only one to reject it, I have to agree that was selfish. It sounds like you were thrown by the offer of extra time that you hadn't expected. Don't be so rigid.

What I don't understand is why the teacher had an "all or none" policy. Why should everyone suffer for one person?

 

[Cyrus]

No problem. And then the time was up, instead of start collecting the paper, professor said she will give us 10 more minutes if that's what everybody want to do and unless there's people who have to leave. So there was a brief moment of students looking at each other to see if anybody reject her offer.

I rejected it. I politely told her that I have to leave.

ERRRRRNNNNNNN WRONG.. You should have used those 10 minutes.

If I knew I that I had 10 more minutes, I could have fixed my mistakes all along the test.

No, you knew you had those 10 minutes when she told you, and you decided to give them away. Now you can only blame yourself.

If I finish an exam 10 mins early and we get 10 mins, Ill stay an extra 20 mins just to look over stuff because I can.


Wow, if someone screwd me over for an extra 10 mins on the exam, Id stand next to the person and talk to my friend out loud and say something like "what an F'in idiot that guy is", so everyone can hear me. Thats just messed up man.

 

[morphism]

I don't understand what you had to lose if you accepted the extra 10 minutes.

 

[Moonbear]

I guess the prof was trying to be fair that if someone had another place to be and couldn't spend 10 extra minutes, they weren't penalized if everyone else was able to stay. And, if you really had to be somewhere (i.e., your next class) then the offer of an extra 10 min really wasn't helpful or fair to you, nor was it fair to put you in that position. The professor should have spent the time writing a test of appropriate length for the time allotted rather than expecting students to stay longer...not everyone can stay.

 

[dontdisturbmycircles]

The advantage of being well prepared for the test, I am not saying it made it right, but that is probably why he did it.

 

[Cyrus]

Unless he had an exam in the next class, he should have been 10 mins late to it.

 

[Evo]

The advantage of being well prepared for the test, I am not saying it made it right, but that is probably why he did it.

Who's to say the others weren't well prepared? For all his "preparedness", he wasn't anywhere near through. Other's might have been much closer to being finished than he was and the extra ten minutes could have really helped.

 

[Moonbear]

Unless he had an exam in the next class, he should have been 10 mins late to it.

And if the material covered in that 10 min appeared on the exam for that class? That's unreasonable to expect students to have to miss 10 min of their next class because of poor planning on the prof's part. He should just grade on a scale at this point knowing nobody had time to complete it.

 

[Cyrus]

I disagree 100%. I am late to class all the time and I don't fail exams. You're just not missing anything in the first 10 mins of class that you can't make up very very easily reading the book.

He was given a gift. Unless he had another exam, there's really no excuse. Thats why there is a book and a syllabus.

I've missed a week of class this semester for one of my classes and I am not behind. I was too tired to go, so I stayed home and slept . He can miss 10 minutes.

 

[dontdisturbmycircles]

Yes, if it is graded on a scale then I believe that it is not that bad, If it is not, then it would not be fair, but is the prof's fault, not the student.

 

[Cyrus]

What do you mean its not the professors fault? The fact that they didnt get extra time is his fault, not the professors.

Anyway, I'd be fuming if someone in the class gave away my extra time like that.



Oh well, now its over...but I wouldn't ask anyone in your class for help on anything anymore. You just shot yourself in the foot point blank with a cannon.

 

[out of whack]

Nobody was cheated out of anything. Results are graded on a curve. The test happened exactly as everyone knew it would. There was nothing to gain by changing the parameters at the last minute. What will be changed next time? Way to keep a class off balance. The prof screwed up by dangling this under the class' nose.

 

[Cyrus]

There was nothing to gain by changing the parameters at the last minute.

Yes there was, a gain of 10 minutes to do more work. No one said they were sitting there clueless. He clearly said he could have done it if he had those 10 mins.

He had everything to gain and nothing to lose.

 

[out of whack]

Yes there was, a gain of 10 minutes to do more work. No one said they were sitting there clueless. He clearly said he could have done it if he had those 10 mins.

You do understand how tests measure the relative knowledge of various students against each other, right?

 

[Cyrus]

You know that I don't care how I measure realtive to others right? I just care that I show that I know the material. The 10 mins shows that, because I would have had the time to do so.

I don't care if everyone else gets an A or a C. I care about *my* grade.

 

[out of whack]

You know that I don't care how I measure realtive to others right?

That's the purpose of a test graded on a curve.

 

[Moonbear]

Yes there was, a gain of 10 minutes to do more work. No one said they were sitting there clueless. He clearly said he could have done it if he had those 10 mins.

He had everything to gain and nothing to lose.

And what if a few people in the class WERE able to get done without the 10 min extra? Is it fair to them to then give more people a chance to "catch up?"

 

[light_bulb]

That's probably the single worst piece of advice I've ever heard. What's the point in putting on an act and pretending you're someone else? Even if then more people like you, they aren't going to like you are they? They're going to like some fake version of you that pretends they're someone else because they're too scared of what people think .



I agree with this-- but there's a big difference between being good at something and being a know it all.

who said anything about pretending? knowing when not to talk, nod your head in agreement or just keep quiet is an asset. one that i need to work on theirs a difference between being scared of what people think and not giving a crap, but instead of dealing with bs just let it go.

 

[Cyrus]

And what if a few people in the class WERE able to get done without the 10 min extra? Is it fair to them to then give more people a chance to "catch up?"

But they were not able to do it. Its not a hypothetical, its what the OP said clearly.


Even if *I* was finished early, I wouldn't screw the class over like that. I'd sit there for 10 mins and check my work over again so that I can get 100 and they can get 85, or whatever else they might get.

 

[Moonbear]

What do you mean its not the professors fault? The fact that they didnt get extra time is his fault, not the professors.

No, it is the professor's fault for writing an exam that cannot be completed in the appropriate time. He should grade accordingly, and not pit one student against the entire class by making those who have other committments choose between being late for those committments or have the entire class pissed off at them, or be put at a disadvantage for letting the rest of the class go ahead working on the exam while they left. If they were told they'd have 50 min to complete the exam, then whatever is completed in 50 min is all they should be given time to do. Instead, you're suggesting he should be unfair to his next class by disrupting it and walking in late, and unfair to himself by missing part of his next class. Maybe you can miss parts of lecture and be okay, but not everyone can miss the beginning of a lecture and still know what's going on the entire rest of the class. Or, what if the next class had a pop quiz at the beginning? Or a professor who takes attendance?

If the rest of the class is going to be mad about this, then let them be. It's time for them to grow up and learn that sometimes when deadlines hit, there are no extensions, and you just suck it up and accept what you get for what you have done by then.

 

[Cyrus]

That's the purpose of a test graded on a curve.

No, a test is to show if you understand the material. Not who knows it better than the other person. If everyone knows it, everyone gets an A. THAT SIMPLE.

 

[out of whack]

I wouldn't screw the class over like that.

That's a completely unfair criticism. Screw the class over? You are way over the line.

 

[denverdoc]

I was in school for a long time, first working towards a BS than an MS which turned into an MD/PhD program and then licensure, etc. Never have I had a situation such as what you descibed occur. First I agree that the teacher should know better than to put students on the horns of a dilemma and not be changing the rules as she went. Likely inexperience at work here, and can be forgiven.

Now here is where I would suggest some honest introspection, did you really have to attend the next class, or even just arrive late. So if you can tell me that you have never missed a class except for the intervention of illness, emergency, etc I think you're a lot better man than I. Also ask yourself if part of the calculation in making your decision, is that you felt the advantage would accrue to yourself, better to get partial credit for a skelotonized answer than none at all and assumed either correctly or incorrectly that your classmates had not, and that by quitting on time would benefit you. This can also be argued to be ethical conduct, but as in the real world, expect some consequences. Thats part of the bargain.

 

[Cyrus]

No, it is the professor's fault for writing an exam that cannot be completed in the appropriate time. He should grade accordingly, and not pit one student against the entire class by making those who have other committments choose between being late for those committments or have the entire class pissed off at them, or be put at a disadvantage for letting the rest of the class go ahead working on the exam while they left. If they were told they'd have 50 min to complete the exam, then whatever is completed in 50 min is all they should be given time to do. Instead, you're suggesting he should be unfair to his next class by disrupting it and walking in late, and unfair to himself by missing part of his next class. Maybe you can miss parts of lecture and be okay, but not everyone can miss the beginning of a lecture and still know what's going on the entire rest of the class. Or, what if the next class had a pop quiz at the beginning? Or a professor who takes attendance?

If the rest of the class is going to be mad about this, then let them be. It's time for them to grow up and learn that sometimes when deadlines hit, there are no extensions, and you just suck it up and accept what you get for what you have done by then.

A quiz is worth 10 points and is a fraction of a fraction of your grade. A test is a MAJOR portion of your grade >20%. I would miss a quiz without hesitation to have more time on an exam because its just not worth it point wise.

 

[Moonbear]

That's a completely unfair criticism. Screw the class over? You are way over the line.

I agree. Especially when the exam is graded on a scale or curve, if nobody had the extra time, it's irrelevant to their performance. Nobody was screwed over.

 

[Cyrus]

That's a completely unfair criticism. Screw the class over? You are way over the line.

No, I am not. Thats what he did, and how I would have taken it had he done it to me.

Oh well, its his problem now. I am not going to argue over it. Have a nice day. Its his problem to live with now.

 

[Moonbear]

A quiz is worth 10 points and is a fraction of a fraction of your grade. A test is a MAJOR portion of your grade >20%. I would miss a quiz without hesitation to have more time on an exam because its just not worth it point wise.

Not every class grades the same way. And yet, you ignore the main point that it is just plain wrong to expect a student to sacrifice one class for another. If I was the professor in the next class, I'D be pissed that students were all showing up late from the other class and disrupting MY class. You can choose to miss what you want, but that should NEVER be forced upon everyone. Sometimes quiz and attendance grading can make or break a borderline grade, and then it's even MORE important than a few points on an exam that don't push you into a different grade. The professor was wrong, the other students were selfish to expect him to sacrifice time from his next class or his quiz score so THEY could do better.

 

[Evo]

The professor was wrong, the other students were selfish to expect him to sacrifice time from his next class

He never said that he had to get to another class and he didn't have the time.

or his quiz score so THEY could do better.

So what justifies him selfishly taking away their time? I agree the teacher was absolutely wrong to offer the time as an "all or none", but that doesn't make his selfish act right. Of course, he was given that option, so he shouldn't be surprised that the other students weren't happy. Some of them that knew the material better, perhpas studied harder would have completed all three questions.

It seems to me that he knew another 10 minutes wouldn't help him, so he didn't care if others would benefit, it was all about him. Sometimes we need to be considerate of others.

 

[denverdoc]

just where in this thread is there mention of a quiz--certainly not the OP, which if were true would be pertinent, and should have been included. I believe the poster is wanting justification for his decision, and/or a chance to reflect on whether he did the right thing. I don't think for a second he acted incorrectly, should never have been placed in this position, and if done on the basis of his standing in the class purely, w/o regard to social consequences, than he accepts the consequences. But MB IMO raises the most salient question of all: there may have been a rush of students to the door at t minus a minute or two, never expecting any relief, and so just turned in what they had, knowing a minute or two more work was unlikely to bear big fruit. On that basis alone, the teacher should have never considered such a flex option. Arguing about ehics in a situation where the boundary conditions are in themselves unethical, fruitless.

 

[NeoDevin]

The teacher should not have offered the extra time at all, never mind whether it should have been all or none or not.

Whatever reasons he had for making his decision are really irrelevant. He was given a choice and he made it. People can and will get mad at him for every choice in life (almost). Personally if given the same choice, I would weigh the options and choose whichever I thought would work out best for me. I'm not going to school so anyone else can get a good grade, just myself. If it's graded on a curve, then how well everyone else might do will come into my consideration too.

Having said that, if someone else refused the time, when I could have used it, I wouldn't be upset with them for it.

 

[Art]

Seems strange to act indignant on the basis that the extra 10 minutes spoiled your planning.

50 mins for 3 questions is ~17 mins per question yet you spent 30 mins on Q1 leaving only 10 mins each for the other 2. Doesn't sound like good time management to me. I'd have thought you'd have been glad of the extra time.

 

[light_bulb]

as you can see everyone here has a different opinion of the situation yet the class as a whole was pissed.

and that's why you hold your tongue or come up with a good lie "i have to get to the vet do you mind if i hand this in ten minutes early" lol.

it's like telling a lady she has an ugly baby when everyone else is telling her how cute it is haha you just don't do it or at the least nod in agreement.

 

[DaveC426913]

So what justifies him selfishly taking away their time?

You're twisting the facts.

It was not "their" time in the first place. And he didn't "take it away".

I agree the teacher was absolutely wrong to offer the time as an "all or none"

For the teacher to have offered anything other than all or none would definitely have been unethical. They can't claim a level playing field by which to weigh students aainst each other and then when it doesn't turn out the way the majority likes they change the rules in favour of those who aren't doing well.

 

[denverdoc]

I took a particular interest in this thread as I treat many colorado school of mines student where I know punches aint pulled and passing levels for intro physics is very low. Under this stress people react in ways that no one can anticipate, but occasionaly I wil petiton for extra time, Its a proposition that worries me,

 

[HungryChemist]

Well, all day, I attentively read all the posts, following people's opinion and their advices. I thank you all who expressed your true opinions. (that includes 'cyrusabdollahi') It seems that opinions are well divided into pro and cons and I think I know what I will do next time. Although, I wish that I never be put to such dilemma again. In brief, I don't regret what I did. Class is strictly curved and everybody had same time as promised. If however reason, 10 minutes of extra can be justified, why not 30 minutes? or just make it take home so that everyone can finish the test with their full knowledge and do the same thing for Physics GRE! So I really have no regret and no doubt that my action was fair. Such occasion makes me to think that if one day I become a professor, I will keep my test time rock solid.

However, I regret that I stood up against majority of class thereby increasing another chance of hate crime in my campus. You see, I had to run to library to return "statistics textbook" which I've been studying until just before the test. It's the reserved textbook so I must give it back to library on time (rental duration is only 3 hours sharp and that was right when the test was done) or I have to pay $8. I planned it all when I was checking it out so that I can return it just after finishing the test. No, it wasn't medical emergency, No, I didn't have test in next class. I am quiet getting stressful out of all this and now I think that I should have stayed and avoid angry faces of my fellow students and just pay the freaking $8 that will earn me a piece in mind.

 

[Huckleberry]

I don't see the big deal. You were within your rights to not accept the extra 10 minutes. The class is alloted for a certain time and it seems the test was too long for that time if none of the students finished it. That's not your fault.

I've seen situations like this before and the teacher grades the individual test on a curve. Usually the results are to the benefit of all the students in the class. The teacher probably realized his error and offered the extra time as a way to make it up to the class. If the teacher punishes the class for his own mistakes then he's not a very good teacher. I'm guessing the class won't be upset with you when they get their grades back.

 

[light_bulb]

better hope they don't stuff you in a locker

 

[J77]

Tests are overrated.

 

[BobG]

How big is this class and how many times has the professor taught it?

An instructor for a statistics class should realize that, unless her class is exceptionally big, grading on a curve is very unfair. Average grades can be affected by having particularly smart class, a particularly dumb class, or having a class that interacts with each other particularly well.

Sometimes class members actually do get together to help each other. In fact, some classes specifically assign group projects based on the idea that the students will have to work with others once they get a job after graduation. How well does that work when any help you give another student hurts your own grade?

If she's taught the class a few times, you'd also think she would have kept track of how long it takes to complete the test. A few people not completing the test is okay, but if no one's completing the test, then she has a problem with her test.

I also don't like it when a teacher has several classes and grades on the overall curve. The students taking the test in the afternoon always seem to do better than the first class to take the test in the morning.

 

[Pythagorean]

In our Mechanics test, we had one kid that had to go to a next class to take a quiz, and the teacher forgot about him, so he wrote the test as a two hour test (instead of the one-hour and ten minutes we had).

Once his hour and ten were up, everybody got pissed at him because we hadn't finished all of our problems (or even started the fourth and last problem). I'm not like that, personally. I'm really not that concerned because a) I know I'll pass and b) as chroot said, "It's just a test".

Anyway, final point: they're not mad at him anymore. They got over it.

 

[Evo]

However, I regret that I stood up against majority of class thereby increasing another chance of hate crime in my campus. You see, I had to run to library to return "statistics textbook" which I've been studying until just before the test. It's the reserved textbook so I must give it back to library on time (rental duration is only 3 hours sharp and that was right when the test was done) or I have to pay $8. I planned it all when I was checking it out so that I can return it just after finishing the test. No, it wasn't medical emergency, No, I didn't have test in next class. I am quiet getting stressful out of all this and now I think that I should have stayed and avoid angry faces of my fellow students and just pay the freaking $8 that will earn me a piece in mind.

Well, that's completely different, and you had a reason to leave. I apologize for saying you were selfish.

I still can't believe that teacher did what she did. She must be new.