Did Jesus teach his followers to sin by prioritizing him over their parents?

[phoenixthoth]

in a small way to begin with, you already change the world when you post.

may your journey be graceful,
phoenix

 

[Tog_Neve]

megashawn

So by this logic, I could have faith in jesus as my savior, and go on a killing spree, and still get into heaven.

This, is probably one of my biggest problems with the belief.

I mean, if a good deed is meaningless, what weight does a bad deed carry?

And if being a good person doesn't get you any browny points, what is the purpose in being good?

If you have faith in Jesus then odds are that you would not desire nor actually go out on a killing spree. If you had read the Bible you would understand it a bit more and forgive me because I do not have mine handy to get the references.
But there is but one thing required to get entrance into Heaven and that is faith in Jesus. There are several references that talk about through this faith good works and deeds shall be done. Also there are references to the rewards one shall receive in heaven is also based upon the works done.

And no good deed nor bad deed is meaningless...every action you make has consequences, you may never see the consequences or know about them but there are consequences.

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

Originally posted by TENYEARS
Jesus never said love me more than your parents. Nada no way no how.

Have you read your Bible lately?
http://www.godrules.net/library/kjv/kjvmat19.htm
verses 19:28 and 19:29

 

[TENYEARS]

No enlightented person could say such a thing because they would not be enlightened, it is illogical. Just because words are attributed to someone does not mean they said them and if they did not neccessarily in the context which was taken or presented. I know for a fact that present day bibles have been interpreted incorretly in some parts and have actually had their meanings erradicated by the interpretation. "He that find the spirit within him will go no more out" What do you think that means?

What could have been alluded to is to find god in one context is to let go of all that you hang onto at least within yourself(could be your parents, wife, children, job, ego, it is a different mix for any human being). God can be found no other way, unless that method creates this experience. There are many spokes that lead to the hubless hub.

 

[megashawn]

See, that's what I love about religion. Your faced with a statement directly from the bible that seems to contradict other parts of the bible, and your response is that it has been incorrectly interepted.

You also state that you know this for a fact. Can you also state
that the parts of the bible which make up your beliefs have been interpreted correctly? Can you prove this?

 

[TENYEARS]

Mega, if you wish, I would interpret any part of the bible in which I have questioned it's meaning into existence. Only that which I understand otherwise I will say I do not know or this is what I believe which is separtate from what I do know.

 

[Pocketwatch]

Try this: Take the name Jesus and count the letters of the alphabet. j would be 10, e is 5, s is 19 etc. Now multiply each of the numbers by 9 and then add them together and see what you get.

j=10 x 9 =90
e=5 x 9 = 45
s=19 x 9 =171
u=21 x 9 =189
s=19 x 9 =171
Then add the numbers.

Also try cross, gospel, lucifer, satan's, messiah

I checked every word in the Bible from cover to cover and the list of words that add the same as jesus is rather short.

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

but for this to have some relevance shouldn't you use the spelling of Jesus in the hebrew alphabet?

 

[megashawn]

I checked every word in the Bible from cover to cover and the list of words that add the same as jesus is rather short.

I'd have to agree with Guybrush on that, and also ask a question.

Since jesus's mathematical value for his name is 666. Now how exactly you came up with the multiply by 9 and add the sums, well, doesn't sound like any scriptural support to back that up.

Anyhow, since jesus's name = 666 by your method, then would that not make christ the antichrist? Now there's a paradox for ya.

 

[Pocketwatch]

Originally posted by Guybrush Threepwood
but for this to have some relevance shouldn't you use the spelling of Jesus in the hebrew alphabet?

Does it have any relevance when people pray to Jesus in english?

Originally posted by megashawn
I'd have to agree with Guybrush on that, and also ask a question.

Since jesus's mathematical value for his name is 666. Now how exactly you came up with the multiply by 9 and add the sums, well, doesn't sound like any scriptural support to back that up.

Anyhow, since jesus's name = 666 by your method, then would that not make christ the antichrist? Now there's a paradox for ya.

I found it on a christian message board that had a calculator where you could "calculate the number of the beast". They took the website down when someone discovered that the name Jesus added up to 666.

How do we know if Jesus is the real messiah or not? He could be standing in the way of the real messiah. (anti messiah)

The Bible says that after the temple is rebuilt then shall messiah come. It is not likely to be rebuilt soon because most christians are taught that when the temple is rebuilt then the antichrist will come. So they don't support the rebuilding of the temple. The Old Testament teaches that when the temple is rebuilt the messiah will come. The New Testament teaches the antichrist will come.

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

Originally posted by Pocketwatch
Does it have any relevance when people pray to Jesus in english?

well, you do have a point here, God is supposed to be Universal. The next question would be then: shouldn't your method yield the same result in all the languages?
For instance in romanian Jesus is spelled "Isus", and that sums up to:
i=9 x 9 =81
s=19 x 9 =171
u=21 x 9 =189
s=19 x 9 =171
----------------
612

I found it on a christian message board that had a calculator where you could "calculate the number of the beast". They took the website down when someone discovered that the name Jesus added up to 666.

ROFL...

speaking of 666, here's some interesting stuff
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/BeastNumber.html

 

[Iacchus32]

Originally posted by Pocketwatch
I found it on a christian message board that had a calculator where you could "calculate the number of the beast". They took the website down when someone discovered that the name Jesus added up to 666.

How do we know if Jesus is the real messiah or not? He could be standing in the way of the real messiah. (anti messiah)

Actually this does make sense for we're speaking about "whose version" of Christianity this applies to, in which case the number 666 applies to The Reformation, which essentially "took root" in Great Britain.

Whereas here, the number 666 applies to the second of three degrees of spirituality that exists in the spiritual world. The first corresponding to the Roman Catholic Church (hence the number 333), which doesn't even qualify as a true religion because it's only deemed "natural"; the second corresponding to the Reformation (hence the number 666/667), which speaks of faith in Jesus Christ, but not of the works, in which case it doesn't qualify as the "True Church" either, yet it's still considered "spiritual" (to the degree that faith is combined with works). Whereas the third degree (hence the number 999/1000) speaks of the Christian Church which very few know about, because by combining faith with works, and going about one's own business, one rarely receives the notoriety, which is the case with the third or "Celestial Church."

"And to the angel of the church in Pergamos [the third church in Revelation] write ... To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it." (Revelation 2:12-17).

 

[Pocketwatch]

Another name that adds up to 666 by this method is Joshua. The Jews call Jesus Yehoshua which in English means Joshua.

Check out this link.
http://religioustolerance.org/reconstr.htm

The Christion Reconstructionists advocate this:

All religions other than Christianity would be suppressed. Nonconforming Evangelical, main line and liberal Christian institutions would no longer be allowed to function. Society would revert to the laws and punishments of the Hebrew Scriptures. Any person who advocated or practiced other religious beliefs would be tried for idolatry and exterminated. Blasphemy, adultery and homosexual behavior would be criminalized; those found guilty would be executed.

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

Originally posted by Pocketwatch

The Christion Reconstructionists advocate this:

All religions other than Christianity would be suppressed. Nonconforming Evangelical, main line and liberal Christian institutions would no longer be allowed to function. Society would revert to the laws and punishments of the Hebrew Scriptures. Any person who advocated or practiced other religious beliefs would be tried for idolatry and exterminated. Blasphemy, adultery and homosexual behavior would be criminalized; those found guilty would be executed.

sounds like a bunch of party people...

 

[Iacchus32]

Originally posted by Pocketwatch
Another name that adds up to 666 by this method is Joshua. The Jews call Jesus Yehoshua which in English means Joshua.

Check out this link.
http://religioustolerance.org/reconstr.htm

The Christion Reconstructionists advocate this:

All religions other than Christianity would be suppressed. Nonconforming Evangelical, main line and liberal Christian institutions would no longer be allowed to function. Society would revert to the laws and punishments of the Hebrew Scriptures. Any person who advocated or practiced other religious beliefs would be tried for idolatry and exterminated. Blasphemy, adultery and homosexual behavior would be criminalized; those found guilty would be executed.

Yes, and it seems to be plainly stated right here ...

And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. (Revelation 13:16-18).

 

[megashawn]

Well fella's, looks like we've blown the lid off this whole bible conspiracy thing. Jesus is the anti christ.

I'm still wondering what reason a person decided to give numerical value to jesus's name, and multiply by 9.

Is there no biblical backing for this? You must admit the whole thing is rather rediculous.

The Christion Reconstructionists advocate this:

Yet another reversal to Pascal. If this is what they advocate, I can't wait to get to hell to get me as far away from these ppl as possible.

 

[FZ+]

Originally posted by Iacchus32
Yes, and it seems to be plainly stated right here ...

I thought that referred to bar codes!

 

[Iacchus32]

Originally posted by megashawn
Well fella's, looks like we've blown the lid off this whole bible conspiracy thing. Jesus is the anti christ.

And yet when Jesus says, "You profess my name on your lips but your hearts are far from me," suggests anything but the "true Jesus," hence the anti-Jesus, the anti-Christ, which was none other than The Reformation, and continues unto the so-called Christian Church of today.

Also, with respect to the deadly wound suffered by the "beast out of the sea" in Revelation 13, "And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast" (verse 3), this is supposed to signify that faith in Jesus Christ alone saves -- but, without the works "of charity" -- which was one of the primary docrinals established by The Reformation.

 

[Pocketwatch]

Isaiah|14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! Isaiah|14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: Isaiah|14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Isaiah|14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. Isaiah|14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the Earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; Isaiah|14:17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners? Isaiah|14:18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house. Isaiah|14:19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet. Isaiah|14:20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

Isaiah|14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!

Revelation|22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Isaiah|14:19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch

Matthew|28:2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. Matthew|28:6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.

Isaiah|14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:
Isaiah|14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Ephesians|4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

Isaiah|14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
John|10:30 I and my Father are one.

Isaiah|14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Revelation|1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the Earth shall wail because of him.

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

Originally posted by megashawn

I'm still wondering what reason a person decided to give numerical value to jesus's name, and multiply by 9.

wel they are some spooky people on this planet. perhaps they were afraid of multiplying with 0 since that would make everything the same...

what are you trying to say pocketwatch?

 

[Pocketwatch]

Nothing really.
Just throwing in some bible verses. I do not believe Jesus ever really lived. After the O.T. was translated into Greek, the Greeks and Hellenistic Jews invented a new religion to subvert Juaidism. It is called syncretism. A blending of two religions to make another. It was a war strategy that Alexander the Great used to weaken the nations he was warring against.

 

[Iacchus32]

Originally posted by Pocketwatch
Nothing really.
Just throwing in some bible verses. I do not believe Jesus ever really lived. After the O.T. was translated into Greek, the Greeks and Hellenistic Jews invented a new religion to subvert Juaidism. It is called syncretism. A blending of two religions to make another. It was a war strategy that Alexander the Great used to weaken the nations he was warring against.

Well, there's no doubt Christianity is a hybrid between Judaism and Greek religion, more specifically the wine-god Dionysus, but does that make it any less valid? Just as Judaism itself has considerably more to do with Zoroastrianism of Persia, than what we now call Judaism. While before that, the ancient Hebrews, prior to their release from Egypt, were probably very much like Egyptians, indeed. And upon their leaving, they turned the whole Egyptian pyramid scene upside-down, to form the star of David, so to speak. (I had always wondered if that's what that meant?)

While even prior to that, the name of the original patriarch, Abraham, is supposed to be derived from Brahma, one of the major gods of India; whereas Sarah (or Sarai), Abraham's wife, is supposed to be derived from Saraisvati, the Brahma's consort. In which case we're speaking of the blending of Brahmanism with possibly the Babylonian.

And, just as we are all "hybrids" in our own right -- in that we all have a mother and a father -- would it be incorrect to assume that such a relationship doesn't exist with religion as well?

 

[FZ+]

Because a rather major statement in the bible is that it is absolute truth, and the god of the bible is the only true god.

Hmm... protestants can argue the complete opposite. The pope is the anti-christ, and the reformation makes the way for jesus by returning religion to the people.

 

[Iacchus32]

Originally posted by FZ+
Because a rather major statement in the bible is that it is absolute truth, and the god of the bible is the only true god.

All I'm saying is hey, things just don't arise out of nowhere.

Hmm... protestants can argue the complete opposite. The pope is the anti-christ, and the reformation makes the way for jesus by returning religion to the people.

Actually neither one is right, it's just that the Roman Catholics constitute a lower position on the totem pole so to speak. Whereas the third church, which is the highest and only "true church," exists above the two thirds or, the number 666 line.

 

[FZ+]

All I'm saying is hey, things just don't arise out of nowhere.

But as a matter of most theist dogma, they do. God, and the true belief in God is supposed something here from the beginning.

Whereas the third church, which is the highest and only "true church," exists above the two thirds or, the number 666 line.

And the fourth?

 

[Iacchus32]

Originally posted by FZ+
But as a matter of most theist dogma, they do. God, and the true belief in God is supposed something here from the beginning.

Yes, but how can God arise out of nowhere if He's always existed? All this suggests is that everything which is not singular, arises out of that which is singular, God.

And the fourth?

There are actually only three degrees of enlightenment here. Which I like to compare to the development of radio and television. Where first you have the development of radio, where you can hear but are unable to see (understand), much in the way the Roman Catholics preach to the masses in a foreign tongue (Latin), in which case nobody can really see.

Second you have the development of black and white TV, where in fact everyone can now see and yet, it's still subject to interpretation, because there's no color. In which case it becomes like a free-for-all, much in the way the Protestant Church comes replete with a myriad of denominations.

Third you have the development of color TV, which is comprised of the marriage of truth (back and white) and good (color), thus speaking of that which is complete and fully functional, in which case nothing further needs to be said. Such is the case with the third and only "true church," which goes about its own business and doesn't draw a lot of attention to itself.

Of course if there were to be a fourth degree, it would probably be more like high-definition TV, where the relationship between the third degree (color) and second degree (black and white) are properly understood.

 

[Jikx]

the forth would be depth, a 3D TV. Where wisdom comes from the melding of Understanding (sound), Truth (B&W) and Good (Colour).

Keep on going, and you have reality, where you are now

 

[RoyBlizzard3rd]

jesus sinning

It would be nice if before any of you guys get to heavy into trying to figure out if Jesus sinned or not you would learn to read the Hebrew and Greek texts and know the culture and etc of which he lived enough to make an educated comment on what he supposedly said. In the English text it reads very differently than the Hebrew and Greek texts. It is very idiomatic Rabbinic Jewish thought and beliefs. If you don't understand them you don't understand Jesus. The book of thomas is a very late bogus rendering of things Jesus supposedly said. By all accounts this was written well over 300 years after Jesus lived. ALL Scholars worth their salt know this.If you really want to know what he said in the Hebrew or Greek I would be happy to tell you. But do you really want to know?

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

why don't you enlight us then? why wouldn't I want to know? will the Earth crack and Armageddon start if you tell us?

Most of the people here have no time to learn ancient Greek and Hebrew. Why are those texts more true? Were they not copied over and over again during the centuries? Are you saying that the official translation of the Bible made by the church isn't reliable? Can you supply a link to a new translation?

 

[mikelus]

I see as a choice of the son or daughter to be a deciple of jesus. So this would not have been his sin. If anyones the son or daughter.