Diffeomorphism Invariance in Einstein's Gravitation Theory Explained

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter eVulcanon
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Hilbert
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the concept of diffeomorphism invariance in the context of Einstein's gravitation theory, specifically regarding the Hilbert Action and the matter action. Participants explore the implications of this invariance and the necessity of setting the variation of the matter action to zero.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the reason behind the diffeomorphism invariance of the Hilbert Action and the matter action, referencing texts by Wald and Carroll.
  • Another participant expresses frustration at the lack of responses to the initial question.
  • Some participants assert that the invariance is due to the action being a scalar.
  • A follow-up question is posed regarding whether all scalars are diffeomorphism invariant.
  • One participant elaborates that diffeomorphism invariance suggests that fundamental laws should not depend on the chosen coordinate system, which is a foundational assumption in General Relativity.
  • This participant notes that since physical quantities are described by tensors, which are diffeomorphism invariant, the action must also exhibit this invariance.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying degrees of understanding regarding the concept of diffeomorphism invariance, with some agreeing on its significance while others remain uncertain about the implications and reasoning behind it. No consensus is reached on the necessity of setting the variation of the matter action to zero.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions regarding the definitions of invariance and the nature of scalars and tensors are not fully explored, leaving room for further clarification. The discussion does not resolve the question of whether all scalars are diffeomorphism invariant.

eVulcanon
Why is the Hilbert Action and the matter actionof the Einstein's Gravitation theory diffeomorphism invariant, as Wald said in his textbook General Relativity on Page 456 and Sean Carroll said in his Spacetime and Geometry on Page 435.

In other words,why do we have to set
[tex]\delta S_{M}[/tex] to be zero?

Thx!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
Nobody knows the reason?
 
samalkhaiat said:
Because it is a scalar.

Is any scalar diffeomorphism invariant?
 
Diffeomorphism invariance (or better: covariance) is the statement that fundamental laws do not depend on the coordinate system chosen. This is, in some sense, quite natural to assume.

By this assumption it also very reasonable to use a mathematical language in which such a co-/invariance is manifest. This is why General Relativity is completely based upon differential geometry. Physical quantities are described by tensors, which are, in some sense by definition, diffeormophism invariant.

A scalar is just a special version of a tensor (the simplest one). Since we assume that our physical laws are diffeormorphism invariant, and all these laws are in one way or the other connected to the action, the action itself better be invariant as well.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 73 ·
3
Replies
73
Views
12K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
29
Views
4K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
7K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
4K