Diffeomorphisms & the Lie derivative

In summary, the conversation discusses the concept of vector fields and diffeomorphisms in the context of differential geometry and general relativity. The first question addresses the need for a one-parameter family of diffeomorphisms in order to compare vectors at different points on a manifold. The second question delves into the calculation of a Lie derivative of a vector and its interpretation using the pullback map. The conversation ends with a request for clarification and further insight into the topic.
  • #1
Frank Castle
580
23
I've been studying a bit of differential geometry in order to try and gain a deeper understanding of the mathematics of general relativity (GR). As you may guess from this, I am approaching this subject from a physicist's perspective so I apologise in advance for any lack of rigour.

As I understand it, given a base manifold ##M##, a vector field ##X:M\rightarrow TM## is a section of the tangent bundle of the manifold ##M##. Furthermore, a given vector field ##X## generates a local one-parameter group of diffeomorphisms ##\sigma_{t}(p):=\sigma(t,p)## that are the integral curves of X, i.e. $$\frac{d}{dt}\sigma^{\mu}_{t}(x)=X^{\mu}(\sigma_{t}(x))$$ with the initial condition $$\sigma^{\mu}_{0}(x)=x^{\mu}$$ where ##\sigma^{\mu}_{t}(x)## is the coordinate representation of the diffeomorphism ##\sigma :\mathbb{R}\times M\rightarrow M## and, similarly, ##X^{\mu}(\sigma^{\mu}_{t}(x))## are the coordinate components of ##X##.

The first question I have, is that from reading Sean Carroll's GR notes, when introducing the Lie derivative, he states that "a single discrete diffeomorphism is insufficient; we require a one-parameter family of diffeomorphisms...". Is what is meant by this that in order to be able to compare vectors at different points on a manifold, we need a mapping between the two points that continuously connects the two points, such that one can meaningfully take a limit?! By this I mean, by varying the parameter ##t## the diffeomorphism ##\sigma_{t}## maps to different points, such that if we have some starting point ##p\in M## and some end point ##q\in M## then by varying ##t##, ##\sigma_{t}## maps to a continuous set of points between ##p## and ##q##, thus defining a continuous curve between ##p## and ##q##. Such that, as we increase the value of the parameter ##t##, ##\sigma_{t}## maps to different points(between ##p## and ##q##), and for some value of ##t## it maps to the point ##q##, such that we have a parametrised curve connecting the point ##p## to the point ##q##, along which we can "drag" vectors from one (base) point to another.

Given this initial formalism, my second question pertains to the pullback and pushforward defined by the diffeomorphism ##\sigma_{t}## and calculating the Lie derivative of a vector:

Choosing a particular local coordinate chart, under the action of ##\sigma_{t}## (for infinitesimal ##t##), a point ##p## whose coordinate is ##x^{\mu}##, is mapped to $$x'^{\mu}:=\sigma^{\mu}_{t}(x)=\sigma^{\mu}(t,x)=x^{\mu}+tX^{\mu}(x)$$ Given a vector field ##Y##, suppose we wish to evaluate its change as we move from the point ##p## to a nearby point ##q##, whose coordinate is given by ##x'^{\mu}=\sigma_{t}(x)##. To do this we must use the pullback map ##\left(\sigma_{-t}\right)_{\ast}:T_{\sigma_{t}(x)}M\rightarrow T_{x}M## to map the vector ##Y\big\vert_{\sigma_{t}(x)}\in T_{\sigma_{t}(x)}M## to ##T_{x}M## and then take the difference between this and the vector ##Y\big\vert_{x}\in T_{x}M##. Let ##e_{\mu}\big\vert_{x}## and ##e_{\mu}\big\vert_{x'}## denote the coordinate bases for ##T_{x}M## and ##T_{\sigma_{t}(x)}M##, respectively. Then, $$Y_{x'}:=Y\big\vert_{\sigma_{t}(x)}=Y^{\nu}(x')e_{\mu}\big\vert_{x'}=\left[Y^{\mu}(x)+tX^{\nu}(x)\frac{\partial Y^{\mu}(x)}{\partial x^{\nu}}+\mathcal{O}(t^{2})\right]e_{\mu}\big\vert_{x'}$$ Then, using the pullback map, $$\left(\sigma_{-t}\right)_{\ast}Y\big\vert_{x'}=\left[Y^{\mu}(x)+tX^{\nu}(x)\frac{\partial Y^{\mu}(x)}{\partial x^{\nu}}+\mathcal{O}(t^{2})\right]\left(\sigma_{-t}\right)_{\ast}e_{\mu}\big\vert_{x'}$$ Now this is the bit that I'm unsure about. How does one interpret ##\left(\sigma_{-t}\right)_{\ast}e_{\mu}\big\vert_{x'}##? Does one simply use the chain rule, such that $$\left(\sigma_{-t}\right)_{\ast}e_{\mu}\big\vert_{x'}=\frac{\partial x^{\nu}}{\partial x'^{\mu}}e_{\nu}\big\vert_{x}=\left(\delta^{\nu}_{\,\mu}-t\frac{\partial X^{\nu}}{\partial x'^{\mu}}\right)e_{\nu}\big\vert_{x}=\left(\delta^{\nu}_{\,\mu}-t\frac{\partial X^{\nu}}{\partial x^{\lambda}}\frac{\partial x^{\lambda}}{\partial x'^{\nu}}\right)e_{\nu}\big\vert_{x}=\left(\delta^{\nu}_{\,\mu}-t\frac{\partial X^{\nu}}{\partial x{\mu}}+\mathcal{O}(t^{2})\right)e_{\nu}\big\vert_{x}$$ If this is the case, then I think I get what's going on, since then we have $$\left(\sigma_{-t}\right)_{\ast}Y\big\vert_{x'}=\left[Y^{\mu}(x)+tX^{\nu}(x)\frac{\partial Y^{\mu}(x)}{\partial x^{\nu}}+\mathcal{O}(t^{2})\right]\left[\delta^{\nu}_{\,\mu}-t\frac{\partial X^{\nu}}{\partial x{\mu}}+\mathcal{O}(t^{2})\right]e_{\nu}\big\vert_{x}\\ =\left[Y^{\mu}(x)+t\left(X^{\nu}(x)\frac{\partial Y^{\mu}(x)}{\partial x^{\nu}}-Y^{\nu}(x)\frac{\partial X^{\mu}(x)}{\partial x^{\nu}}\right)+\mathcal{O}(t^{2})\right]e_{\mu}\big\vert_{x}$$ and the Lie derivative of ##Y## with respect to ##X## is then $$\mathcal{L}_{X}Y=\lim_{t\rightarrow 0}\frac{\left(\sigma_{-t}\right)_{\ast}Y\big\vert_{x'}-Y\big\vert_{x}}{t}=\left[X^{\nu}(x)\frac{\partial Y^{\mu}(x)}{\partial x^{\nu}}-Y^{\nu}(x)\frac{\partial X^{\mu}(x)}{\partial x^{\nu}}\right)e_{\mu}\big\vert_{x}=\left[X,Y\right]$$ However, I'm quite unsure as to whether I've understood this all correctly. Any help and/or insight would be much appreciated.
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
Bump. I'm curious about this too. The "one-parameter family of diffeomorphisms" sailed over my head the first time I read it in Wald.
 
  • #3
Second Bump.

This seems to be a good calculation. One thing I don't see is how the high order terms behave under the diffeomorphisms, since this gives only a first order condition on the expansion. They would have to fall off to zero faster than the region collapses, but I don't see what information allows this. Perhaps my eyes are blurred...
 
  • #4
If anyone has any ideas on this it'd be much appreciated. I'd really like to understand the intuition behind "one-parameter family of diffeomorphisms".
 
  • #5
Frank Castle said:
If anyone has any ideas on this it'd be much appreciated. I'd really like to understand the intuition behind "one-parameter family of diffeomorphisms".
Your calculation looks good to me, i.e. without drawing some pictures of which parts happen actually where. As far as I understood it, the role of one-parameter (connected) subgroups is only to establish a correspondence to one-dimensional Lie subalgebras as the basis for the correspondence subgroups ##\leftrightarrow## subalgebras. All I've found was an example (torus) where the author finishes:
... that it is rather difficult in general to tell the precise character of a one-parameter subgroup just from knowledge of its infinitesimal generator.
It's a book about Lie groups, so he works directly with the exponential map from the beginning, which makes things a little bit less abstract.
 
  • #6
Frank Castle said:
If anyone has any ideas on this it'd be much appreciated. I'd really like to understand the intuition behind "one-parameter family of diffeomorphisms".
then try to define and calculate the Lie derivative of 1-form ##\omega=\omega_i(x)dx^i,\quad \mathcal L_X\omega=?##
another useful exercise show that ##g_X^s\circ g_Y^t= g_Y^t\circ g_X^s\Longleftrightarrow [X,Y]=0##, here ##g_X^t## is one parametric group generated by the vector field ##X##
 
  • #7
fresh_42 said:
Your calculation looks good to me, i.e. without drawing some pictures of which parts happen actually where. As far as I understood it, the role of one-parameter (connected) subgroups is only to establish a correspondence to one-dimensional Lie subalgebras as the basis for the correspondence subgroups ##\leftrightarrow## subalgebras. All I've found was an example (torus) where the author finishes:

It's a book about Lie groups, so he works directly with the exponential map from the beginning, which makes things a little bit less abstract.

Is the idea behind the need for a one-parameter family of diffeomorphisms that a single diffeomorphism ##\phi## with map a given point ##p## to one (and only one) "new" point ##q=\phi(p)##. As such this is not enough if we wish to connect two points by a curve that we can subsequently parallel transport a vector between their respective tangent spaces. To do so we need a "family" of diffeomorphisms - one for each value of some parameter ##t##, since then for different values of ##t##, ##\phi_{t}## will map the initial point ##p## to different points between ##p## and ##q## (i.e. by varying ##t##, ##\phi_{t}(p)## corresponds to different points between ##p## and ##q##). Thus, ##\phi_{t}(p)## describes a curve, parametrised by ##t## with the constraints that ##\phi_{0}(p)=p## and ##\phi_{\tau}(p)=q## for some value of ##t=\tau##. Would this be a correct understanding of the intuition behind it at all?!
 
  • #8
Frank Castle said:
Is the idea behind the need for a one-parameter family of diffeomorphisms that a single diffeomorphism ##\phi## with map a given point ##p## to one (and only one) "new" point ##q=\phi(p)##. As such this is not enough if we wish to connect two points by a curve that we can subsequently parallel transport a vector between their respective tangent spaces. To do so we need a "family" of diffeomorphisms - one for each value of some parameter ##t##, since then for different values of ##t##, ##\phi_{t}## will map the initial point ##p## to different points between ##p## and ##q## (i.e. by varying ##t##, ##\phi_{t}(p)## corresponds to different points between ##p## and ##q##). Thus, ##\phi_{t}(p)## describes a curve, parametrised by ##t## with the constraints that ##\phi_{0}(p)=p## and ##\phi_{\tau}(p)=q## for some value of ##t=\tau##. Would this be a correct understanding of the intuition behind it at all?!
This is my understanding of it. A single diffeomorphism ##\phi## from ##M \rightarrow M## basically just relabels the points on ##M##. A family of diffeomorphisms at a fixed point ##p## denoted ##\phi_t(p)## maps ##\mathbb{R} \rightarrow M##, so it's equivalent to a curve on ##M## parameterized by ##t \in \mathbb{R}##.

Edit: one other thing Wald talks about, which I didn't see in Carroll, is that ##\phi_{s+t} = \phi_s \circ \phi_t## and ##\phi_0(p) = p##, which means that the family of diffeomorphisms is actually an Abelian group.
 
  • #9
TeethWhitener said:
This is my understanding of it. A single diffeomorphism ##\phi## from ##M \rightarrow M## basically just relabels the points on ##M##. A family of diffeomorphisms at a fixed point ##p## denoted ##\phi_t(p)## maps ##\mathbb{R} \rightarrow M##, so it's equivalent to a curve on ##M## parameterized by ##t \in \mathbb{R}##.

Edit: one other thing Wald talks about, which I didn't see in Carroll, is that ##\phi_{s+t} = \phi_s \circ \phi_t## and ##\phi_0(p) = p##, which means that the family of diffeomorphisms is actually an Abelian group.

Ok cool, this makes intuitive sense to me.
 
  • #10
TeethWhitener said:
Edit: one other thing Wald talks about, which I didn't see in Carroll, is that ##\phi_{s+t} = \phi_s \circ \phi_t## and ##\phi_0(p) = p##, which means that the family of diffeomorphisms is actually an Abelian group.
... which are exactly the defining equations of flows of the vector field.
 

1. What is a diffeomorphism?

A diffeomorphism is a smooth and invertible mapping between two different smooth manifolds. In simpler terms, it is a function that can transform one space into another space while preserving the smoothness of the original space.

2. How is a diffeomorphism related to the Lie derivative?

The Lie derivative is a mathematical tool used to measure the change of a tensor field along a given vector field. Diffeomorphisms can be used to generate vector fields, which can then be used to calculate the Lie derivative.

3. What is the significance of diffeomorphisms in physics?

In physics, diffeomorphisms are used to describe the symmetries of physical laws. They are also used in the theory of relativity to describe the invariance of physical laws under changes in coordinates.

4. Can diffeomorphisms be used to study non-linear systems?

Yes, diffeomorphisms are particularly useful in studying non-linear systems as they allow for the transformation of a complex non-linear system into a simpler one, making it easier to analyze and understand.

5. How are diffeomorphisms applied in real-world applications?

Diffeomorphisms have a wide range of applications in various fields such as computer graphics, image processing, and fluid dynamics. They are also used in the development of algorithms for machine learning and artificial intelligence. In addition, diffeomorphisms are used in the study of biological systems, such as the movement of cells and organs in the human body.

Similar threads

  • Differential Geometry
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • Differential Geometry
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • Differential Geometry
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • Differential Geometry
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • Differential Geometry
Replies
1
Views
975
  • Differential Geometry
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
5
Views
377
  • Special and General Relativity
Replies
4
Views
590
  • Special and General Relativity
Replies
1
Views
753
  • Differential Geometry
Replies
7
Views
2K
Back
Top