Differantiation proof question

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a proof involving the properties of a function \( f(x) \) that is differentiable and continuous on specified intervals. The original poster seeks to prove that there exists a point \( c \) in the interval (-1,1) such that \( f''(c) \geq 1 \), given certain conditions about the function's values and the existence of an extreme point.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to apply the Mean Value Theorem (MVT) to derive a conclusion about the second derivative of the function. They express confusion regarding the necessity of continuous differentiability in the context of applying MVT multiple times.

Discussion Status

Participants are exploring the requirements for applying the Mean Value Theorem, particularly regarding the continuity and differentiability of the function and its derivatives. Some participants clarify that while the function is twice differentiable, the continuity of the first derivative is also necessary for certain applications of MVT.

Contextual Notes

There is an ongoing discussion about the implications of the function being continuously differentiable and the requirements for applying the Mean Value Theorem to its derivatives. The original poster questions the necessity of continuous differentiability given the conditions stated in the problem.

transgalactic
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f(x) is a differentiably continues on [-1,1]
and differentiable twice on (-1,1)
suppose f(0)=-1 and f(1)=1 and function f(x) has on (-1,0) an extreme point.

prove that there is a point c on (-1,1) so f''(c)>=1
??

prove:
because of ferma law
if a function has an extreme point on (-1,0) on the point c1 in (-1,0) then
f(x) differentiable on (c1) and f'(c)=0

because of mean value theorem there is a point c2 on (0,1):
f'(c2)=[f(1)-f(0)]/(1-0)=2
and because f'(x) differentiable once more we can do MVT again
f''(c3)=[f'(c2)-f'(c1)]/c2-c1=(2-0)/(c2-c1)
c1 and c2 are inside (-1,1) so the difference between them is smaller then 2
f''(c3)=2/(c2-c1)>=2/2 >=1

i can't understand why do i need to know that its differentiable continuously
it seem like the fact that it differentiable twice is enough
??
 
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To apply the MVT to f' you need that f' is differentiable on (-1, 1) AND continuous on [-1, 1].
This is precisely equivalent to continuously differentiable on [-1, 1] and twice differentiable on (-1, 1), as you can check.
 
so we need f(x) to be continuously differentiable in order to do mvt for f'(x)

but we did it twice
we have not been given that f'(x) continuously differentiable too
so we didnt have the right to do mvt on f''(x)
??
 
Check again the requirements for the MVT.

Wikipedia said:
Let f : [a, b] → R be a continuous function on the closed interval [a, b], and differentiable on the open interval (a, b), where a < b

We need f to be continuous on the closed interval and differentiable on the open interval. There are no requirements on the continuity of the derivative. So if you want to apply the MVT to f', it is enough if f' is continuous on the closed interval and differentiable on the open interval, which means that f must be continuously differentiable on the closed interval and twice differentiable (without requirement on the continuity of the second derivative) on the open interval.
 
thanks :)
 

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