I Difference between the Shapiro Delay and time dilation?

  • I
  • Thread starter Thread starter dsaun777
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary
The discussion highlights the distinction between the Shapiro Delay and time dilation, emphasizing that the Shapiro Delay refers specifically to light's deflection due to a massive object's gravitational field, while time dilation is a broader concept related to the effects of gravity on time perception. The Shapiro Delay was first calculated in 1964, a point of curiosity given its apparent connection to general relativity (GR). Factors contributing to its late discovery include the technological limitations of measuring light travel time and a lack of theoretical interest in GR during the decades prior. The introduction of radar technology and space exploration in the 1960s facilitated the necessary measurements. Overall, the conversation underscores the interplay between technological advancements and theoretical developments in physics.
dsaun777
Messages
296
Reaction score
39
I recently listened to The Origins Podcast with Lawrence Krauss and he had on the 94 year old physicist Irwin Shapiro. It was interesting and went into some of the details regarding the history of his work. In it he brings up how he first calculated what we now call the Shapiro Delay. It is a measure of light's deflection caused by a large mass such as the sun. It sounds very similar to time dilation. Does anyone here know the difference between the Shapiro Delay and time dilation and why it was only in 1964 that was discovered? It seems like a natural deduction from GR.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
It's more than just time dilation; it's measurably affected by the curvature of Schwarzschild spatial planes.

Why it wasn't thought of before is an imponderable. But there are a number of factors that may be relevant.

People tend to think in terms of tests you can do. To measure Shapiro delay you need to measure flight time, which depends on knowing the launch time of the light. The only ways I can think of doing it is radar (low power sets were developed in World War II), sending a space probe to the far side of the Sun (space exploration took off in the 1960s), or tracking pulsars (not discovered until the 1960s). It couldn't have been done much before it was. In fact, the radar set they tested it with was built in the early 60s, so may have stimulated research itself (people were looking for applications for it).

Also, I seem to recall that there was relatively little theoretical interest in GR between the 1920s and the 1960s, when there was a resurgence because new mathematical tools were brought to bear. So maybe there just wasn't much work in that field.
 
  • Like
Likes dsaun777 and Nugatory
The Poynting vector is a definition, that is supposed to represent the energy flow at each point. Unfortunately, the only observable effect caused by the Poynting vector is through the energy variation in a volume subject to an energy flux through its surface, that is, the Poynting theorem. As a curl could be added to the Poynting vector without changing the Poynting theorem, it can not be decided by EM only that this should be the actual flow of energy at each point. Feynman, commenting...
I asked a question here, probably over 15 years ago on entanglement and I appreciated the thoughtful answers I received back then. The intervening years haven't made me any more knowledgeable in physics, so forgive my naïveté ! If a have a piece of paper in an area of high gravity, lets say near a black hole, and I draw a triangle on this paper and 'measure' the angles of the triangle, will they add to 180 degrees? How about if I'm looking at this paper outside of the (reasonable)...