Differentials of Entropy for Air and Water at Different Temperatures

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the differentials of entropy for air and water at varying temperatures, focusing on the mathematical expressions for entropy changes and their implications in thermodynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the integral forms of entropy changes, questioning the validity of certain expressions and the necessity of specific integrals. There are discussions about the implications of heat transfer and the conditions under which these integrals are applied.

Discussion Status

There is ongoing exploration of the correct forms of the entropy change equations, with some participants suggesting alternative interpretations and questioning the assumptions made in the original expressions. Hints have been provided regarding the need for clarity in the setup of the problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the problem requires expressing entropy changes in integral form, which may impose constraints on the approaches taken. The ambient temperature's constancy is also highlighted as a factor affecting the analysis of air's entropy change.

yamata1
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Homework Statement
A bottle of water is removed from a cupboard at the initial temperature ##T_i##. In the ambient air of constant temperature ##T_0##, it warms or cools to reach equilibrium at the final temperature
##T_f = T_0##. The heat capacity of the plastic of the bottle is neglected compared to that of the water.
The thermal expansion of the water is also neglected.


a)The heat capacity C of the water depends on the temperature. Express entropy variations
##\Delta S## of water, ##\Delta S_{th}## of the air and ##\Delta S_{univ}## of the universe in the form of integrals.

b) Show that, whatever the temperatures, ##\Delta S_{univ}\geq 0##.
Relevant Equations
##dS=\frac{dQ}{T}##
for a)##\Delta S=\mp \int_{T_i}^{T_0}\frac{C(T)}{T}dT## and ##\Delta S_{th}=\int_{T_i}^{T_0}\frac{dQ}{T_0}dT## so ##S_{univ}=\Delta S_{th}+\Delta S##.

What is ##dQ## equal to ? I don't know how to answer question b).

Thank you for your help.
 
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Your integral for ##\Delta S_{th}## makes no sense. You cannot have two 'd' terms in a single integral.
Hint: you do not need that integral at all.
 
Last edited:
haruspex said:
Your integral for ##\Delta S_{th}## makes no sense. You cannot have two 'd' terms in a single integral.
Hint: you do not need that integral at all.
Indeed,Is ##\Delta S_{th}=\mp\frac{Q}{T_0}=\mp\int_{T_i}^{T_0}\frac{C(T)}{T_0}dT ## correct ?
If so then question b) is ## \Delta S_{univ}=\int_{T_i}^{T_0}C(T)(\frac{1}{T}-\frac{1}{T_0})dT ## when the water heats up and ## \Delta S_{univ}=\int_{T_i}^{T_0}C(T)(\frac{1}{T_0}-\frac{1}{T})dT ## when it cools off .Both of these integrals are positive since C(T) is strictly positive.
 
haruspex said:
Hint: you do not need that integral at all.
True, but the question (part a) asks to express the entropy changes "in the form of integrals."
 
yamata1 said:
Indeed,Is ##\Delta S_{th}=\mp\frac{Q}{T_0}=\mp\int_{T_i}^{T_0}\frac{C(T)}{T_0}dT ## correct ?
If so then question b) is ## \Delta S_{univ}=\int_{T_i}^{T_0}C(T)(\frac{1}{T}-\frac{1}{T_0})dT ## when the water heats up and ## \Delta S_{univ}=\int_{T_i}^{T_0}C(T)(\frac{1}{T_0}-\frac{1}{T})dT ## when it cools off .Both of these integrals are positive since C(T) is strictly positive.
Since the ambient temperature does not change you cannot express the air's entropy change as an integral dT. What is the other option?
 
kuruman said:
True, but the question (part a) asks to express the entropy changes "in the form of integrals."
Ah, quite so.
 
Compare differentials dS for the air and for the water thruout the range of T.
 

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