Dimensional analysis: Energy Transfer

Click For Summary
The discussion revolves around the dimensional analysis of an equation from a 1973 paper on energy transfer in rare-earth doped materials. Participants are trying to reconcile the left side's unit of dipole-dipole energy transfer probability, [s^{-1}], with the derived units from the right side of the equation. Initial attempts using SI and cgs units led to mismatches, prompting suggestions to consider the inclusion of missing constants like ε0 and the interpretation of spectral overlap integral S. Ultimately, a successful dimensional analysis in cgs units confirmed that the equation correctly yields the expected unit of events per unit time, [s^{-1}]. The collaborative effort highlights the importance of careful unit consideration in theoretical physics.
HAYAO
Science Advisor
Gold Member
Messages
379
Reaction score
238

Homework Statement


There is a paper in 1973:
T. Kushida, "Energy Transfer and Cooperative Optical Transitions in Rare-Earth Doped Inorganic Materials I. Transition Probability Calculation", J. Phys. Soc. Jpn. 1973, 34, 1318-1326. DOI: http://dx.doi.org/10.1143/JPSJ.34.1318
that explains the multipole-multipole energy transfer probability.

I need help with dimensional analysis of the following equation in this paper that looks EXACTLY like this:

\bar{P}_{AB}^{(dd)} = \frac{1}{(2J_{a}+1)(2J_{b}+1)}\left ( \frac{2}{3} \right )\left ( \frac{2\pi }{\hbar} \right )\left ( \frac{e^{2}}{R^{3}} \right )^{2}\left [ \sum_{\lambda }^{ } \Omega _{A\lambda }\left \langle J_{a}\left \| U^{(\lambda )} \right \| J_{a}' \right \rangle^{2}\right ]\left [ \sum_{\lambda }^{ } \Omega _{B\lambda }\left \langle J_{b}\left \| U^{(\lambda )} \right \| J_{b}' \right \rangle^{2}\right ]S

here,

\bar{P}_{AB}^{(dd)}: Dipole-dipole energy transfer probability. Unit: [s^{-1}]
J_{a}: Total angular momentum quantum number at state a of specie A. No unit.
J_{b}: Total angular momentum quantum number at state b of specie B. No unit.
\hbar: Reduced Planck constant. Unit: [J s]
e: Elementary charge. Unit: [C]
R: Distance between specie A and B. Unit: [m]
\Omega _{A\lambda }: Scaling parameter for specie A. \lambda denotes tensor rank. Unit: [m^{2}]
\left \langle J_{a}\left \| U^{(\lambda )} \right \| J_{a}' \right \rangle: Reduced matrix element of J_{a}\rightarrow J_{a}' transition of specie A. \lambda denotes tensor rank. Unit: [-]
\Omega _{B\lambda }: Scaling parameter for specie B. \lambda denotes tensor rank. Unit: [m^{2}]
\left \langle J_{b}\left \| U^{(\lambda )} \right \| J_{b}' \right \rangle: Reduced matrix element of J_{b}\rightarrow J_{b}' transition of specie B. \lambda denotes tensor rank. Unit: [-]
S: Spectral overlap integral of A and B. Unit: [m]

After dimensional analysis of the right side of the equation, it did not match with the unit on the left side of the equation.

Homework Equations


Dimensional analysis:
\frac{1}{J\cdot s} \cdot \left ( \frac{C^{2}}{m^{3}} \right )^{2}\cdot m^{2}\cdot m^{2}\cdot m

The Attempt at a Solution


\frac{1}{J\cdot s} \cdot \left ( \frac{C^{2}}{m^{3}} \right )^{2}\cdot m^{2}\cdot m^{2}\cdot m
= \frac{C^{4}}{J\cdot s\cdot m}
= \frac{A^{4}\cdot s^{4}}{kg\cdot m^{2}\cdot s^{-2}\cdot s\cdot m}
= \frac{A^{4}\cdot s^{5}}{kg\cdot m^{3}}

I broke them all down into SI units, but I have no idea how this is going to be s^{-1}. I think I am making a careless or fundamental mistake here, but I just can't figure it out. What do you guys think?

Thank you
 
Physics news on Phys.org
I think the units could be cgs so that ## e^2/r ## has units of energy. Meanwhile, it looks a lot like an application of Fermi's golden rule which needs a factor ## \rho_f ##, which is the density of final states per unit energy interval. Suggestion would be to look at Fermi's Golden Rule (google it) and see that it is dimensionally correct=then try to compare it to what this author has computed. ## \\ ## Editing: Also might his ## P_{AB} ## refer to energy/unit time?
 
Last edited:
Charles Link said:
I think the units could be cgs so that ## e^2/r ## has units of energy. Meanwhile, it looks a lot like an application of Fermi's golden rule which needs a factor ## \rho_f ##, which is the density of final states per unit energy interval. Suggestion would be to look at Fermi's Golden Rule (google it) and see that it is dimensionally correct=then try to compare it to what this author has computed. ## \\ ## Editing: Also might his ## P_{AB} ## refer to energy/unit time?
Thank you Charles.

I actually already tried cgs just in case, but this was what I got:

\frac{1}{J\cdot s} \cdot \left ( \frac{\left (cm^{\frac{3}{2}}\cdot g^{\frac{1}{2}}\cdot s^{-1} \right )^{2}}{m^{3}} \right )^{2}\cdot m^{2}\cdot m^{2}\cdot m
= \frac{\left ( cm^{3}\cdot g\cdot s^{-2} \right )^{2}}{J\cdot s\cdot m}
= \frac{cm^{6}\cdot g^{2}\cdot s^{-4}}{kg\cdot m^{2}\cdot s^{-2}\cdot s\cdot m}
= \frac{10^{-12}\cdot m^{6}\cdot 10^{-6}\cdot kg^{2}\cdot s^{-3}}{kg\cdot m^{3}}
= 10^{-18}\cdot m^{3}\cdot kg\cdot s^{-3}

It didn't work.

Yes, the equation is derived from Fermi's golden rule. However, the ## \rho_f ## is included as the spectral overlap integral S, so I do not believe we have to worry about that.

The rate is supposed to be events/unit time. The author implicitly says so, and so does other papers (O.L. Malta, J. Non-Cryst. Solids 2008, 354, 4770-4776).
 
Last edited:
Charles Link said:
I think the units could be cgs so that ## e^2/r ## has units of energy.
Ithink it fairly clear there's an ε0 missing. Are you saying that the cgs units are so arranged that this takes the value 1? If so, you may be right, I am not familiar with it.
Either way, you do get to turn ## e^2/r ## into dimensions of energy. Working that through, I get, for the whole expression, energy x distance / time. So even interpreting PAB as energy/time there is a spare length dimension.

I tried looking up spectral overlap integral, but cannot find anything online which makes it clear what dimension that should have. I found an integral with λ4.dλ in it, and nothing obvious to cancel all those extra length dimensions, so I gave up.
 
HAYAO said:
Thank you Charles.

I actually already tried cgs just in case, but this was what I got:

\frac{1}{J\cdot s} \cdot \left ( \frac{\left (cm^{\frac{3}{2}}\cdot g^{\frac{1}{2}}\cdot s^{-1} \right )^{2}}{m^{3}} \right )^{2}\cdot m^{2}\cdot m^{2}\cdot m
= \frac{\left ( cm^{3}\cdot g\cdot s^{-2} \right )^{2}}{J\cdot s\cdot m}
= \frac{cm^{6}\cdot g^{2}\cdot s^{-4}}{kg\cdot m^{2}\cdot s^{-2}\cdot s\cdot m}
= \frac{10^{-12}\cdot m^{6}\cdot 10^{-6}\cdot kg^{2}\cdot s^{-3}}{kg\cdot m^{3}}
= 10^{-18}\cdot m^{3}\cdot kg\cdot s^{-3}

It didn't work.

Yes, the equation is derived from Fermi's golden rule. However, the ## \rho_f ## is included as the spectral overlap integral S, so I do not believe we have to worry about that.

The rate is supposed to be events/unit time. The author implicitly says so, and so does other papers (O.L. Malta, J. Non-Cryst. Solids 2008, 354, 4770-4776).
I tried to look up the O.L. Malta paper you cited, but unfortunately they are wanting $35.95 for the pdf.
 
  • Like
Likes HAYAO
haruspex said:
Ithink it fairly clear there's an ε0 missing. Are you saying that the cgs units are so arranged that this takes the value 1? If so, you may be right, I am not familiar with it.
Either way, you do get to turn ## e^2/r ## into dimensions of energy. Working that through, I get, for the whole expression, energy x distance / time. So even interpreting PAB as energy/time there is a spare length dimension.
Yes, which is also what I got above. I don't understand...

I tried looking up spectral overlap integral, but cannot find anything online which makes it clear what dimension that should have. I found an integral with λ4.dλ in it, and nothing obvious to cancel all those extra length dimensions, so I gave up.
Well the integral part in the above equation comes from the final density of states in the Fermi's Golden Rule. The unit for that is number of states/unit energy. Unit energy can be expressed in wavenumber [cm-1], so that makes the density of state with an unit of [cm]. The spectral overlap you presented there comes from FRET, but there are a lot of things going on before that equation is derived. I am not sure if it is the same spectral overlap defined in the paper above. In the paper above, the spectral overlap is explicitly in form of inverse energy in wavenumbers so [cm] as well.
 
HAYAO said:
Unit energy can be expressed in wavenumber
Sure, but that's the sort of thing that breaks dimensional analysis. The connection is via the factor hc, which has dimension.
If we introduce the missing ε0 and stick with states/unit energy instead of converting to states*wavenumber I think you will find the dimensionality of the expression reduces to just 1/time, as you originally expected.
 
  • Like
Likes HAYAO
Okay guys, I've had some help from Charles and tried solving it all in CSG unit system. I think I've got it. Here it is (I've abbreviated scaling such as 102 in changing from m to cm):

\frac{1}{cm^{2}\cdot g\cdot s^{-2}\cdot s}\cdot \left ( \frac{\left ( cm^{\frac{3}{2}}\cdot g^{\frac{1}{2}}\cdot s^{-1} \right )^{2}}{cm^{3}} \right )^{2}\cdot cm^{2}\cdot cm^{2}\cdot \frac{1}{cm^{2}\cdot g\cdot s^{-2}}
= \frac{1}{cm^{2}\cdot g\cdot s^{-2}\cdot s}\cdot \left ( \frac{ cm^{3}\cdot g\cdot s^{-2}}{cm} \right )^{2}\cdot \frac{1}{cm^{4}}\cdot cm^{2}\cdot cm^{2}\cdot \frac{1}{cm^{2}\cdot g\cdot s^{-2}}
= \frac{1}{cm^{2}\cdot g\cdot s^{-2}\cdot s}\cdot \left ( cm^{2}\cdot g\cdot s^{-2}\right )^{2}\cdot \frac{1}{cm^{2}\cdot g\cdot s^{-2}}
= \frac{\left ( cm^{2}\cdot g\cdot s^{-2}\right )^{2}}{\left ( cm^{2}\cdot g\cdot s^{-2}\right )^{2} s}
= s^{-1}

Looks like it works! Thank you guys!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes Charles Link

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 30 ·
2
Replies
30
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K