Direct Product vs Tensor Product

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the distinction between direct products and tensor products in the context of (2,0) tensors in general relativity. Participants explore the implications of these products in terms of degrees of freedom and representation of tensors.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how a (2,0) tensor can be expressed as a sum of direct products of vectors, seeking clarification on the difference between direct and tensor products.
  • Another participant asserts that a (2,0) tensor cannot be simply represented as the tensor product of two vectors, referencing a textbook on quantum mechanics for support.
  • A participant explains that a direct product of two vectors is represented as ##A^i B^j##, while the tensor product is viewed similarly, but they express uncertainty about whether the inner product could also be considered a tensor product.
  • It is noted that in four dimensions, a (2,0) tensor has 16 degrees of freedom, whereas the tensor product of two vectors has only 8, suggesting that not all (2,0) tensors can be represented as tensor products of two vectors.
  • Another participant reiterates the point about degrees of freedom and emphasizes the need for a linear combination of direct products to construct a general (2,0) tensor, referencing additional resources for further understanding.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the representation of (2,0) tensors as tensor products of vectors, with multiple viewpoints on the implications of degrees of freedom and the definitions of direct and tensor products.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the limitations of their arguments based on the dimensionality of the tensors and the definitions used, which may affect the conclusions drawn about the relationships between direct and tensor products.

dman12
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Hi,

I am working through a textbook on general relativity and have come across the statement:

"A general (2 0) tensor K, in n dimensions, cannot be written as a direct product of two vectors, A and B, but can be expressed as a sum of many direct products."

Can someone explain to me how this is the case? Am I right in thinking that a (2 0) tensor is the tensor product of two vectors, so how then is the direct product of two vectors different to the tensor product?

Thanks!
 
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dman12 said:
Am I right in thinking that a (2 0) tensor is the tensor product of two vectors...?

I say that is not correct,

Take a look at quantum mechanic of Cohen Tanoudji page 155.
 
A direct product of two vectors would mean ##A^i B^j##. A tensor product of two vectors would mean the same thing to me (unless you want to consider the inner product ##A^i B_i## as a kind of tensor product as well).

dman12 said:
Am I right in thinking that a (2 0) tensor is the tensor product of two vectors

No, this is not true. In four dimensions, a (2,0) tensor has 16 degrees of freedom, while the tensor product of two vectors has only 8. Therefore it is not possible that all (2,0) tensors can be represented as the tensor product of two vectors.
 
bcrowell said:
No, this is not true. In four dimensions, a (2,0) tensor has 16 degrees of freedom, while the tensor product of two vectors has only 8. Therefore it is not possible that all (2,0) tensors can be represented as the tensor product of two vectors.
And therefore you need a linear combination of such direct products to build up a general (2,0) tensor. I find Carroll's notes (http://preposterousuniverse.com/grnotes/grnotes-one.pdf ) quite helpful for the subject.
 
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