Discussing Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOs)

AI Thread Summary
The discussion revolves around the definition and implications of UFOs, emphasizing that they are simply Unidentified Flying Objects, which can include anything from new aircraft to balloons. Participants debate the connection between UFOs and extraterrestrial life, with some asserting that aliens likely exist given the vastness of the universe, while others argue that there is no concrete evidence linking UFO sightings to alien encounters. The conversation touches on historical perspectives, suggesting that early sightings of human-made aircraft were perceived as extraordinary, and questions the credibility of claims about alien technology and communication methods. Additionally, crop circles are mentioned as a point of contention, with some believing they are evidence of alien activity, while others attribute them to human hoaxes. Ultimately, the thread highlights the ongoing fascination and skepticism surrounding UFOs and the possibility of alien life.
  • #201
Originally posted by Zantra
So you're telling me none of the successive presidents ever would have had the insight simply ask the right people "do these places exist?" or question it? I mean MJIC and other related info like area 57 are public knowledge. Surely he has the authority to simply say "take me to the base"? Or maybe not? I don't know...

Greer and his people [some of which were high ranking authorities themselves] claim that certain presidents are denied access - Carter and Clinton most recently. I guess that one can only ask for what is known to exist.
 
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  • #202
Well the way it was presented by greer wasn't that they were told it doesn't exist-exclusive of UFO's, black budget projects do exist. They were simply told that they were not allowed access to it.

And if something doesn't exist, then you have nothing to hide, and nothing to deny access to. They are prepsing that Carter was going to reveal the truth the American people.
 
  • #203
Originally posted by zoobyshoe
Ivan,

In response to this:

"I think the reason that my motives are not obvious is that you don't perceive this question [UFOs = ET?] as potentially true."

You are essentially correct. It is
true that I leave the door open a
small crack for the possibility
that beings from another planet
are behind all this, but for the most part I find that this particular explanation has it's
basis in fiction. That is: the
wide spread notion of life on
other planets has its origin in
H.G.Wells' The War Of The Worlds.
That book, in turn, was based on
the speculation about life on
Mars after the discovery of the
Martian "Canals". In other words:
the fiction came first and then
people started trying to fit the
host of inexplicable occurances
into the fictional model.
Before ET it was "The Wee Folk"
of the British Isles. Almost every
Native American tribe has lore
about a race of Liliputian peoples
who are generally invisible or live in small tunnels. The Mexi-
cans today still have the legend
of the Duendes- dwarfish beings
who prey upon people out alone in
isolated areas.
Now, if President Bush went on
TV tomorrow and announced that all
the coverups were at an end and
that the governent was !00% sure
earth was being visited by crafts
from another planet, but that we
didn't know why, where they were
from, or anything else about them,
I do not believe this would have
the exhilarating, mind expanding
effect on the general population
you think it would.
You have to detach from your own
reaction and think realistically
how this would effect people who
have totally different lives and
concerns than you. You cannot throw a monkey wrench into peoples
sence of reality without some very
bad consequences. Again, I remind
you of Orson Wells' mistake in this regard.
You, as one individual, may be
able to handle the truth, and want
it to be revealed to you, but the
governments job is to look after
the welfare of the greatest num-
ber.
-zoob

I think you make some good points; so let me beat you up a bit and then I will concede to another good point that you make. First, you need to understand that I don't believe ET is visiting - but I must admit that I think this is highly likely...even all but certain. I suspect that nearly anyone else in my shoes would be a complete believer by now. I desperately hold on to skepticism out of principle; I have to or I will just fade into the woodwork as another true believer.

I want the truth; not any particular answer. However, I really believe that if anyone reviews the links that I have posted in the Napster, in their entirety, and they then review the related links, they would be hard pressed to maintain a skeptical position. In my experience, with only a handful of exceptions, the only people who think this is all hogwash are those who have not seen a full accounting of the evidence. I can say this with a high degree of confidence since after 15 years of study; I can easily dismiss most objections without ever thinking hard. My personal opinion on all of this is based on the government docs posted in the Napster, and on other evidence that I find to be virtually indisputable. As a judge once commented after considering the evidence for ET: “If this were a murder trial there would have been a hanging long ago.”

As far as your historical example of the little people and such – this could just as easily be interpreted as cases of mistaken identity. The arguments that similar legends exist across cultures only serve to argue that ET has been here for a very long time.

As to whether or not this potential reality should be explored, this is more difficult for me to answer. I agree with you that this could be dangerous. I tend towards this position: First, I think you are wrong. The first time that we know as a planet that we are not alone, the human race will be changed forever…unless this knowledge is somehow [once again] lost. This point has been made before – by Carl Sagan for example. I can also argue this based on the influence that physics has had on religion, philosophy, and our world views in general. This however is another discussion entirely, so I will leave this there for now.

Next, what about ET could be worse than the concept of Satan and hell? How disturbing is it for a 10 year old to be told that he could end up burning in hell for all of eternity? What about ET could be worse than what we do to each other? I would rather be taken hostage by ET than hostile humans. Human beings do everything imaginable and the unimaginable to each other. I just don’t see what new aspect of fear ET would bring to the mix. Burglars can come into your home at night; I would take ET over a burglar any time. At least ET puts you back to bed when he’s done!
 
  • #204
Originally posted by Zantra
Well the way it was presented by greer wasn't that they were told it doesn't exist-exclusive of UFO's, black budget projects do exist. They were simply told that they were not allowed access to it.

And if something doesn't exist, then you have nothing to hide, and nothing to deny access to. They are prepsing that Carter was going to reveal the truth the American people.

Zantra, I buried the CSETI link a bit. Do you think I should highlight this link? This stuff is so direct that I thought that people may not give this a chance.

Also, if this got you worked up, read the rest of the Napster links. I don't know how much of this stuff you have seen before, but you have only touched the surface of what hooked me. Watch the video of Corso and Gordon Cooper. Cooper say point blank that he saw a UFO [disc] land at Edwards AFB. He says that aliens then get out and did something around the craft, and when jeeps approached with cameras rolling, the aliens got back into the craft and took off. Cooper was in charge of test flights at the time.
 
  • #205
Originally posted by Zantra
Comon skeptics-watch the video and I would like to hear your view on it.



Boy do I know how you feel...hence the Napster. Watch out though; your conviction will not translate to others. It will create walls...even with family members.
 
  • #206
Ivan,

I read it over three times and
couldn't find the concessions.

-zoob
 
  • #207
Originally posted by zoobyshoe
Ivan,

I read it over three times and
couldn't find the concessions.

-zoob

I was speaking to this idea:
You cannot throw a monkey wrench into peoples
sence of reality without some very
bad consequences.

I acknowledge your concerns here:

As to whether or not this potential reality should be explored, this is more difficult for me to answer. I agree with you that this could be dangerous

Then I present an alternative point of view for consideration.
 
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  • #208
Originally posted by zoobyshoe
...concessions.

-zoob

A few other things to consider; an entire catalog of high ranking military officials, now retired, have gone public with personal knowledge of UFOs. Nearly all of the people who were allegedly closest to this phenomenon encourage public disclosure. What's more, Corso argues that this information is not in the best hands. Greer and his group pursue the legal argument that this issue, and the way that it has been managed, qualify as a failure of constitutional law.

Finally, it is claimed that something like 55-65% of all Americans already believe that UFOs = ET. I wonder what the real number is for physicists….
 
  • #209
Originally posted by Zantra
These are not like the stories I've seen, these are credible people.

The main question is why isn't this being made more public? is it just being written off as more UFO "bunk?"

Has the media bothered to investigate these allegations.[?]

This isn't some bumpkin hayseed in a cornfield going "welp, dem's not from here",

this is very convincing.

It's virtually impossible to be skeptical in the face of such evidence.

Has anyone else seen this video I'm talking about ? what is your take on it?

And you can't just offhandedly discredit some of the people on that list.

Comon skeptics-watch the video and I would like to hear your view on it.

frustrating isn't it.
 
  • #210
When you bring up high ranking military officers with long distinguished careers in the military, with above top secret clearance,and harvard lawyer, who actually have physical evidence.. I mean cmon people. You waiting for mr alien to bring over a pie and play some poker?

These are not "UFO hunters" or typical "conspiracy theorists". These are obviously highly intelligent people, some of whom are only recently retired from the military.

I mentioned this to my fiancee. And she's as skeptical as anyone. Then I made her watch the video. By the time she finished, she was practically convinced.

I think the problem is that people 1.are in denial- it would have such wide ramifications on religion, and our place in the universe, not to mention the social and economic implications, that many people would refuse to accept it if they landed and started talking to us.
2. Have been trained for so long to believe that aliens and ufo's are just a hoax, that they refuse to look at any evidence as credible because the government and "UFO wackos" have jaded everyone.
 
  • #211
Originally posted by Ivan Seeking
I think you make some good points; so let me beat you up a bit and then I will concede to another good point that you make."

Ivan,
I think you need to explain this.
It just makes you sound like
you're losing it.
 
  • #212
Originally posted by zoobyshoe
Originally posted by Ivan Seeking
I think you make some good points; so let me beat you up a bit and then I will concede to another good point that you make."

Ivan,
I think you need to explain this.
It just makes you sound like
you're losing it.

It sounds like you are reaching. I was simply telling you what I was about to do. "Beating up" is just a typical overstatement intended as mild humor. Are you having problems understanding me?
 
  • #213
What's with the sophistry? This
isn't you. What's up?
 
  • #214
Originally posted by zoobyshoe
What's with the sophistry? This
isn't you. What's up?

If you are surprised then I may have misuderstood your posture. Why would you think I was losing it? I took this as a psychological dodge.
 
  • #215
And yet more?
 
  • #216
Originally posted by zoobyshoe
And yet more?

No. I was wondering about your comment. This is what seems to have created some confusion.
 
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