Distance from origin to a surface

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on finding the shortest distance from the origin to the surface defined by the equation xyz² = 2. Participants explore methods for solving this problem, including the use of gradients and Lagrange multipliers, while addressing the complexities of functions in three variables.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the shortest line from the origin to the surface is normal to the surface and relates this to the gradient at a point on the surface.
  • Another participant provides a mathematical approach, deriving equations from partial derivatives to find critical points, leading to a proposed minimum distance of 2.
  • A different participant expresses confusion regarding the notation and calculations, seeking clarification on the distance formula and the variables involved.
  • One participant challenges another to clarify their explanation and suggests that writing out the solution could facilitate corrections.
  • Another approach is presented, utilizing the concept of normal vectors and Lagrange multipliers, leading to a system of equations that must be solved for x, y, z, and a multiplier λ.
  • Further exploration of the relationships between x, y, and z is suggested, including cases where y = -x and z = -√2y.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants present multiple competing views and methods for solving the problem, with no consensus reached on a single approach or solution. Confusion and differing interpretations of the problem are evident.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note the need for clearer notation and additional brackets in the mathematical expressions. The discussion reflects varying levels of understanding regarding the application of calculus in three dimensions and the implications of the surface equation.

noelo2014
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Had this question on a test today, Find the shortest distance from the origin to the surface

xyz2=2

I figured out by intuition that the shortest line between the origin to the surface will also be normal to the surface.

I haven't done much of these functions in 3 variables, I read somewhere that the gradient at the point on the surface will denote the normal line.
 
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z²=2/(xy)
d²=x²+y²+z²=x²+y²+2/(xy)
Partial derivative relative to x :
2x-2/(x²y)=0
Partial derivative relative to y :
2y-2/(xy²)=0
Solving the equations y*(x^3)=x*(y^3)=1 leads to :
x=y=1
then z=sqrt(2)
min.distance d=2
 
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I'm not that smart, you'll have to explain a bit more clearly.
I'm guessing d is the distance.
I guess you're using the distance formula in line 2. I guess x,y and z refer to the x,y and z coordinate of the point on the surface nearest the origin.

I think you need some more brackets too. I think I see what you're doing though... Too bad 2 was the first number I guessed, should have just wrote it down!
 
Write it yourself. So, it will be possible to correct you if there is something that you don't make correctly.
 
Another way to do this: we want to minimize the distance from (0, 0, 0) to (x, y, z) subject to the condition that xyz^2= 2. You say you know that "the shortest line between the origin to the surface will also be normal to the surface." Okay, the normal to that surface at any point will be in the direction of the vector \nabla (xyz^2)= yz^2\vec{i}+ xz^2\vec{j}+ 2xyz\vec{k}. And any line through the origin to point (x, y, z) is in the direction x\vec{i}+ y\vec{j}+ z\vec{k}.

In order that the line through the origin be normal to the surface, those two vectors must be parallel which means one is a multiple of the other. Calling that multiplier "\lambda". Then we must have
yz^2\vec{i}+ xz^2\vec{j}+ 2xyz\vec{k}= \lambda(x\vec{i}+ y\vec{j}+ z\vec{k})
(this is equivalent to the "Lagrange multiplier" method).

So yz^2= \lambda x, xz^2= y, and 2xyz= \lambda z as well as the original equation of the surface, xyz^2= 2. That gives four equations to solve for x, y, z, and \lambda.

Since a value for \lambda is not part of the solution, I find it typically best to eliminate \lambda first by dividing one equation by another. Dividing the first equation by the second,
\frac{yz^2}{xz^2}= \frac{\lambda x}{\lambda y}
\frac{y}{x}= \frac{x}{y}
so y^2= x^2 so y= x or y= -x.
Similarly, dividing the second equation by the third
\frac{xz^2}{2xyz}= \frac{\lambda y}{\lambda z}
\frac{z}{2y}= \frac{y}{z}
z^2=2y^2 so z= \sqrt{2}y or z= -\sqrt{2}y.

If x= y and z= \sqrt{2}y= \sqrt{2}x then xyz^2= x(x)(2x^2)= 2x^4= 2 so x= y= z= 1 or x= y= z= -1.

Do the other possibilities, y= -x and/or z= -\sqrt{2}y in the same way.
 

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