Engineering Do electrical engineers only work with circuits?

[nst.john]

My question is just like my title. Do electrical engineers do anything besides circuit work? Because I would like to learn more about guys career but circuits is all I find.

 

[Simon Bridge]

Well - electrical engineering applications involve any stuff that can be modeled as an electric circuit of some kind... but also anything that would use electric circuits. But I think that's probably oversimplifying the ideas.
Have a look at the research areas at Canterbury University NZ as a sampler:
http://www.elec.canterbury.ac.nz/projects/postgradprojects.shtml

 

[JakeBrodskyPE]

The concept of a circuit is huge. Electrical engineers work on devices with scales ranging from the atomic to nearly planetary projects.

These circuits appear in everything from cars, spacecraft , phones, radio, the power grid, and so many more things ranging from washing clothes, to lighting buildings, to treating water and so many more things.

But yes, it's just another circuit.

 

[nst.john]

So what is so complex about electrical engineers if it's only circuitry?

 

[JakeBrodskyPE]

If circuits and signals are easy and intuitive for you, then I have to say that there really isn't anything complex about it at all. The rest are just, you know, minor details about actual physics such as ferrite materials, skin effects, Seebeck effects, skin effect, antenna design, and so many more things.

Study AC circuits, RF design, S-parameters, antenna design and the like --and then tell me that it's just another circuit.

 

[nst.john]

I'm not trying to offend anyone. It's just everywhere I've looked it hasn't really stressed how challenging and complex it is.

 

[cronanster]

"Challenging" and "complex" isn't really quantifiable. What is challenging and complex to some, are basic and intuitive to others. The biggest hiccup for me, at least, was the math can get hairy. If you are working for, say Boeing in there R&D department in St. Louis, you will see some highly complex circuits and have to use Fourier Transforms and Fourier analysis to really understand what is going on. Understanding the actual physics is this challenging part.

 

[JakeBrodskyPE]

I'm not trying to offend anyone. It's just everywhere I've looked it hasn't really stressed how challenging and complex it is.

I am not offended nor am I trying to offend anyone. My point of writing this is that occasionally there really are some very smart people who actually "get it" even without all the fancy class work. Such people are rare, but not unknown. I did not want to discount the possibility that you might be the sort that actually understands this sort of thing intuitively.

So when someone says is it really all just circuits; the answer is, well, yes. It is all about circuits and the signals or power that are presented to them. Circuits can be as simple and obvious or as complex and subtle as you want them to be. Some can be coupled electromagnetically, some can be switched at extremely high power or ridiculously high speeds. Some react differently on the surface of a conductor than they do at the core. Power can be stored in many kinds of inductive or capacitative ways and these ways interact to form resonances and phase shifts that will affect how the circuit performs with a given wave form.

The math for describing these circuits is fascinating to me, and perhaps daunting to others who have not seen these phenomena before. It is not particularly difficult, but it isn't commonplace knowledge, either. Not many people really understand the implications, or have an intuitive feel for what this math is all about.

I didn't intuitively understand much of what the math was about. So I "plugged and chugged" just like I learned in school, until eventually, some rules of thumb began to make sense and pieces of what I didn't understand began to fit together. I still get flashes of insight as to what those handbooks, mentors, instructors, and many more resources told me in the past. You never stop learning the nuances of this business.

Yeah, it's just a circuit, but there is an entire world of things that can happen in there.

 

[AlephZero]

From other threads on PF, I guess the OP is at high school or just starting college. Don't make the mistake of thinking that what Google finds on the internet about "circuits" (or any other topic) is all there is to know about them.

Assuming you don't find simple electronic circuits particularly challenging, here's a "simple" question to try:

Suppose you are designing a very high quality audio amplifier (i.e the type of hi-fi system that costs $10,000, not $100). One of the stages is a standard common emitter amplifier circuit using a BJT.

The amount of heat generated in the transistor will change at the same frequency as the signal being amplified, because the currents and voltages are changing, and therefore the temperature of the transistor junctions will change at the signal frequency. Find the amount of harmonic distortion caused by those temperature changes, as a function of the signal frequency and amplitude

 

[Windadct]

Computer Science in many ways grew out of EE - and many of the best algorithmic code is still done by EE's. Signal Processing is a major field of EE - and I would not consider it being all "circuits". And this is only if you work as an electrical engineer - Electrical Engineers are hired to do many things other than Engineering. We also eat and breathe- and post annoying comments on forums.

 

[jasonRF]

Electrical engineering is a fairly broad discipline. Yes, there are digital and analog circuits, as well as circuits that must take into account the wave nature of electromagnetic energy (microwave engineering). Electrical engineers design lasers and solid state optics, work in micro-electromechanical devices, design better transistors (and sometimes the materials used to make the transistors!), develop error correcting codes and optimize the transmission of information (comms / information theory), design antennas, design computer systems, build complicated electronic devices, control systems, work on machine vision, power systems, etc. No EE can do all of this, which is why, especially at the graduate level and in industry, folks must specialize to become an expert in one or more of these things. So there are a wide variety of things electrical engineers can end up doing.

I am an EE, and work with many EEs in many of these specialties; we usually work as teams so that we have the particular expertise exactly where we need it.

jason

 

[nst.john]

Thanks for ask the replies. I think this really revived my interest in electrical engineering

 

[cronanster]

The best way to know what EE's do is to try to shadow one. Just look around your area at companies or even the electric company for your area and send a couple emails. Most engineers will be more than willing to show students what they do.

 

[nst.john]

Sounds good thanks! If I'm interested in electronics engineering would shadowing an electrical engineer still be beneficial?

 

[ZapperZ]

Electrical engineers also work on particle accelerators.

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=410271

Zz.

 

[analogdesign]

Sounds good thanks! If I'm interested in electronics engineering would shadowing an electrical engineer still be beneficial?

It sure would. I design circuits and my job is much, much different from what I would have expected in high school or just starting out in college.

 

[thegreenlaser]

First, the term "circuits" probably includes a lot more than you think; it's not all resistors, capacitors, and inductors. Most circuits involve transistors and diodes, which are much harder to deal with (there are many simple transistor/diode circuits that you simply can't solve exactly by hand). Your computer's processor is "just a circuit," but the complexity of designing something like that is almost unimaginible compared to attaching a light bulb to a battery. Aside from the use of transistors, you have to worry about stuff like how long it takes a signal to propagate along a wire. What happens if signal A arrives 1 microsecond before signal B? Will that delay make things work differently than I expect them to? My point is, real life circuits can be pretty much as complicated as you want them to be.

Second, not all electrical engineers design circuits. I'm in EE, and while I do have basic skills in the area, circuit design really isn't my strong suit. A lot of electrical engineering work is done at a system level. You don't just say "I need a circuit which makes my guitar loud" and then go draw out a circuit diagram. You first break it up into components. For example, "I need such and such a filter feeding into such and such an amplifier" and then the next step would be to design a filter and amplifier to those specs. But the process of determining what filters and amplifiers and other components you need and how to connect them is a big component of the EE design process. Areas like communications, signal processing, and control systems are all part of EE, but a lot of that is just figuring out the "system" part, without worrying about how you actually implement that system with a circuit. Figuring out the system part can require a lot of math with complex numbers and random variables, which I think is a large contributor to the perceived difficulty of EE.

Finally, as jasonRF said, there's a physics component as well. When you get into high frequency circuits (MHz/GHz), the typical rules of circuits start to break down, and you have to be more concerned with electromagnetics. There's a whole field of EE focused on designing radio-frequency/microwave circuits and antennas. While technically still "circuits," the analysis is different compared to low-frequency circuits.

I could go on, but the point is that while any electrical engineer should have some basic understanding of circuit design, there is FAR more to EE than "just" circuits.

 

[nst.john]

Thanks it's good to hear how much I can do in EE

 

[Ryoko]

I graduated with an EE, but most of my career has been in programming.

 

[Hercuflea]

There is a computational plasma physics group at the Umich electrical engineering department. Plasma physics is a pretty interdisciplinary field, though. You will find it in physics, nuclear engineering, electrical engineering, and aerospace engineering, and planetary science groups among others if you look.

 

[nst.john]

What kind of physics is on EE. I mean of course electromagnetics but what else? Please be very detailed and tell me all you know! Thanks

 

[Hercuflea]

I don't know much about EE. I am a math major, but I have done a lot of plasma physics as an undergrad. I can tell you about that, if you like. Are you in college pursuing an EE degree?

 

[nst.john]

I'm in high school and trying to decide between physics and EE

 

[Hercuflea]

You can do both. Most colleges will let you double major. I highly recommend it, I did it. However physics+EE will be a pretty heavy workload. EE will pretty much ensure that you have a job after college if you don't decide to go to graduate school. Some Physics majors have an "engineering" concentration where you could take EE courses towards your physics degree, but bear in mind this will probably not be considered a "real" engineering degree by most employers. It would open up opportunities for graduate school in both physics and EE, though, if you do well in your coursework and include some research.

 

[nst.john]

Sounds nice. Would I have to spend five years for my undergraduate

 

[Hercuflea]

It is pretty rare in the US these days for a person to start college knowing exactly what they want to do and to carry it through in four years without changing majors, taking side courses of interest but not relevant to the major, etc. Sure it is possible to finish in four years, but most people take longer. If you want to double major in Physics and EE, you need to look at your university's course catalog and look at the courses that overlap and the opportunities to obtain double credit. Sometimes you can get credit for one course towards both degrees, sometimes you cant. It would be best to talk to an academic advisor as soon as you arrive at college in both the physics and EE department on how to plan out your double major, if you choose that.

 

[analogdesign]

nst.john,

Most types of physics end up as part of EE at some point. It really depends on your specialization. For the most part undergrad EE is the same in different schools but in grad school you specialize and it can be worlds apart.

Some of the obvious physics connections are:

1. Solid-State Physics. A lot of cutting-edge solid-state (or condensed matter) physics is done in EE departments these days, especially work involving devices such as semiconductors or nanotubes or that type of thing.

2. Electromagnetics. The EM work is much more practical in an EE dept.

3. Optics. Lasers and communications are big research areas.

4. Information Theory. You can find important work going on in physics, math, and engineering depts. In EE a lot of the work is focused on error-correcting codes and line codes as well as quantum computation.

5. Quantum Mechanics. A lot of work to develop devices based on principles of superposition is done in EE depts.

There is also a lot of work in EE depts that leans more heavily on math than physics like Digital Signal Processing and IC Design.

Whatever you do, follow Hercuflea's advice and see what is out there. This stuff is so challenging (in my experience) that you have to be really fired up about it to be successful so find what you're passionate about!

 

[jasonRF]

If you want to double major look at the universities closely ahead of time. Some universities make it easy to do an EE/physics double, and some make it impossible. Where I was EE and physics were in different parts of the university and a double major would have essentially been impossible (likewise for engineering / math double). We didn't even have minors (which was crazy).

Just don't be surprised if your actual job at the end of the day doesn't use that much physics on a daily basis (this is true whatever major you are!). I am an EE working in industry, and I use electromagnetic theory semi-regularly, and basic mechanics a little, but for the most part I never need the mechanics, quantum mechanics, or plasma physics (my grad specialization) that I learned in school.

Jason

 

[.Scott]

I am a Software Engineer who has often assisted with or even soloed on small electrical engineering projects.

My first surprise was how weak many EE's are at analog circuitry. For example, when I suspected a supplier was providing thin 75ohm cable that was not 75ohm, I was able to demonstrate the actual impedance with a pulse generator, an oscilloscope, and a few small parts - with no help available from my EE coworkers.

What I see as the other leg of EE is keeping up with the technology - knowing what components and methods are available and where to find them. Before the advent of the WWW, the EE's I worked with would maintain libraries of hundreds or thousands manufacturers' catalogs.

It can take as long to find the right connector as the right IC.

 

[JakeBrodskyPE]

Scott, in every field we have mediocre people who someone managed to pass the courses without actually understanding anything.

Impedance and transmission line theory is one of the tougher parts of Electrical engineering. Many people are stumped by it.

 

[thegreenlaser]

Scott, in every field we have mediocre people who someone managed to pass the courses without actually understanding anything.

It's also a little unfair to expect all electrical engineers to be proficient at all forms of electrical engineering (isn't that kind of the point of this thread?). That's like how certain relatives of mine think that I should know everything about all fields of science and be able to fix any computer problem because I'm an "engineer," and "engineers know that sort of stuff." People specialize, and they won't necessarily be good at things which aren't relevant to their job. You can't know everything...

 

[tyjae]

I am a Software Engineer who has often assisted with or even soloed on small electrical engineering projects.

My first surprise was how weak many EE's are at analog circuitry. For example, when I suspected a supplier was providing thin 75ohm cable that was not 75ohm, I was able to demonstrate the actual impedance with a pulse generator, an oscilloscope, and a few small parts - with no help available from my EE coworkers.

What I see as the other leg of EE is keeping up with the technology - knowing what components and methods are available and where to find them. Before the advent of the WWW, the EE's I worked with would maintain libraries of hundreds or thousands manufacturers' catalogs.

It can take as long to find the right connector as the right IC.

The problem you described above is something that a technician could handle in all seriousness. I couldn't imagine an Analog Design Engineer would be stumped by Impedance of a cable. At my job we have supply chain employees who are not engineers that would troubleshoot a problem like that. So when you say "no help from my EE coworkers" I'm not surprised. I mean why would they?

This forum seems to becoming "I don't have an Engineering degree but I'm better and more qualified than most".

 

[analogdesign]

The problem you described above is something that a technician could handle in all seriousness. I couldn't imagine an Analog Design Engineer would be stumped by Impedance of a cable. At my job we have supply chain employees who are not engineers that would troubleshoot a problem like that. So when you say "no help from my EE coworkers" I'm not surprised. I mean why would they?

This forum seems to becoming "I don't have an Engineering degree but I'm better and more qualified than most".

This is a good point. Most engineers are so overworked you will need to ask nicely for them to help, and as tyjae said, this isn't challenging.

Also, are the EE coworkers in question Analog or RF engineers? If they are computer or controls engineers they might not have seen anything regarding impedance since undergrad.

 

[mpresic]

Many EE's I know work in the area of optimal estimation, optimal control and communication. Many may work in power generation. If I had to hazard a guess, I would say the majority of them do not work in circuits. However, if you are an EE you need to understand circuits as part of your curriculum.

 

[AlephZero]

I am a Software Engineer who has often assisted with or even soloed on small electrical engineering projects.

The other side to that situation is: if your employer is happy to let somebody with no formal EE training loose on EE projects, maybe all the EE's who want to make a career from their profession are working for a different company.

(That is not meant as a criticism of your personal ability to actually DO the projects - we don't have any objective way to assess that.)

 

[mpresic]

I believe I stated if you are an EE you need to understand circuits as part of your curriculum.

I now feel that I should probably express this more strongly. I think an EE should be proficient in circuit analysis and design even if this means going beyond the curriculum.

As far as the criticism, I have no university degree in EE or AE. My BS,MS,PhD are physics.

Over the last 30 years, I completed (Graduate) Stochastic Signal Processing, Linear Control Theory, Modern Control Theory, Advanced (Nonlinear) controls, Optimal Estimation and Filtering, Robust Estimation, (Undergraduate) Circuit Analysis, and Communications, and perhaps more I lost count.

You need not assess my personal ability, my employer does that.

Finally, the projects I am selected for involve cross-functional teams from many disciplines, including physicists, mathematicians electrical and aerospace engineers, software engineers and managers. In my experience no one worked (I emphasize only) on circuits. (I never solo-ed on any projects except my doctoral dissertation unless you count my thesis advisor as a second person).

 

[mpresic]

I do think .Scott's earlier points regarding analog circuits is well taken.

I have not been involved in circuit analysis since 1988. The main push in schools may be digital rather than analog (I do not know this , but I would not be surprised). In 1988 a EE professor at Virginia suggested to me he felt courses emphasized analysis rather than design and maybe this should (or has) changed.

However this gets away from the main point of the thread regarding exclusivity of studying circuits.

 

[Vite]

I'm a newly graduated EE and I work very little with circuits. I took all of the intro circuits courses in my undergrad but pursued computers, signals, and control systems as my focus. I'm now an automation/control engineer and I don't do much with circuits at all. I can look at simple ones and follow them fairly easily, but my work mostly involves programming devices to function the way I want them to. I am far more competent in analyzing/manipulating signals on a mathematical level than designing the circuitry that is actually implemented in hardware. That is to say I can calculate a system's equation to achieve a desired output given an input, but I don't know how to translate my equation into circuitry very well.

There are many fields included EE, circuits/electronics is just one.