Do GPS Clocks Really Run Slower Than Earth Clocks Due to Time Dilation?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of GPS clocks in relation to Earth clocks, specifically examining the effects of time dilation as described by Special Relativity (SRT) and General Relativity (GRT). Participants explore whether GPS clocks run slower than Earth clocks and how gravitational effects and relative motion influence their ticking rates.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that GPS satellites' clocks appear slower due to SRT effects, while questioning if they are truly slower than Earth clocks.
  • One participant argues that the symmetric effect of moving clocks running slower does not apply in non-inertial situations, indicating that a circling clock cannot claim another clock is running slower.
  • Another participant states that GPS clocks will tick slower than Earth clocks if gravitational effects are ignored, but acknowledges that gravitational potential affects their ticking rate.
  • It is noted that the clocks on GPS satellites tick faster than Earth clocks when accounting for gravitational potential, which offsets the effects of their relative velocity.
  • Some participants mention that the net effect results in GPS clocks running about 39,000 nanoseconds per day faster than Earth clocks, and that they are pre-calibrated to synchronize with ground clocks.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the effects of SRT and GRT on the ticking rates of GPS clocks compared to Earth clocks. There is no consensus on whether GPS clocks run slower or faster when all factors are considered, as multiple competing perspectives remain.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of considering both gravitational potential and relative motion when discussing time dilation effects, indicating that assumptions about these factors can significantly influence conclusions.

exmarine
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I had such success with all your answers to my last SRT question here I’ll try another. The LT seems very symmetric. To the observers in each frame, the other’s clocks appear slower, etc. Is that true for out GPS satellites? If we ignore the GRT effect of speeding up their clocks, I think it is agreed that the SRT effect makes their clocks “appear” (?) slower. Don’t their clocks have to really be slower than ours? Do our ground-based clocks appear slower to them – say to an astronaut circling the globe? Thanks in advance for any help.
 
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No, the symmetric effect of moving clocks running slower in an Inertial Reference Frame doesn't apply in non-inertial situations. So, neglecting the effects of gravity, a clock moving in a circle in an IRF will run slower than a clock stationary in that IRF but since there is no IRF in which the circling clock is always at rest, it cannot say that the other clock is running slower than it is.

In fact, this is the very scenario that Einstein predicted in his 1905 paper introducing Special Relativity at the end of section 4.
 
exmarine said:
I had such success with all your answers to my last SRT question here I’ll try another. The LT seems very symmetric. To the observers in each frame, the other’s clocks appear slower, etc. Is that true for out GPS satellites? If we ignore the GRT effect of speeding up their clocks, I think it is agreed that the SRT effect makes their clocks “appear” (?) slower. Don’t their clocks have to really be slower than ours? Do our ground-based clocks appear slower to them – say to an astronaut circling the globe? Thanks in advance for any help.

The clocks on GPS satellites will tick slower than earthbound clocks if we ignore the fact that they are situated not so deep in the Earth's gravitational field which makes them tick faster, that is correct.

The clocks on board a train going east will tick slower than the clocks on board a train going west, due to the rotation of the earth.

In general if you want to know the rate of time of a moving clock in a near-earth environment you will have to know how fast it is moving in reference to a non-spinning Earth and the gravitational potential at its location.
 
Agerhell said:
The clocks on GPS satellites will tick slower than earthbound clocks if we ignore the fact that they are situated not so deep in the Earth's gravitational field which makes them tick faster

But, just to be clear, if you take the difference in gravitational potential into account at the altitude of the GPS satellites, it more than offsets the effect of relative velocity; the net effect is that clocks on GPS satellites tick *faster* than clocks at rest on the ground. (The timing signals that come from the GPS satellites are corrected for this.)
 
Yes, the GPS clocks 'tick' faster than those on Earth due lower gravity [GR effect], which is partially offset by their orbital velocity [SR effect]. The net effect is they would run about 39,000 nanoseconds per day faster than their earthbound counterparts. GPS clocks are precalibrated before launch to cause them to run this much slower, and, voila! Once in orbit they are synchronized with ground clocks. Scientists subsequently tweak the calibration of the GPS clocks to keep them in synch with ground clocks.
 

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