Do greenhouse gases need to be polar?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around whether greenhouse gases need to be polar molecules to absorb energy and heat up. Participants explore the characteristics of gases, particularly focusing on molecular polarity and vibrational excitation in the context of infrared absorption.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions if greenhouse gases must be polar to absorb energy and heat up.
  • Another participant asserts that non-polar diatomic molecules cannot absorb infrared radiation due to dipole-forbidden vibrational transitions, while molecules with three or more atoms can have asymmetric vibrational modes that allow for infrared activity.
  • A later reply seeks clarification on whether a gas can be heated through an absorption line.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the effectiveness of a single absorption line in causing a measurable temperature rise, suggesting that the power may be insufficient.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of molecular polarity for greenhouse gases, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the effectiveness of absorption lines in heating gases.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions about molecular behavior and the specific conditions under which absorption occurs, which are not fully explored in the discussion.

Maartenc
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Hi,

I have been wondering if greenhouse gases always need to be polar molecules. Can a gas also absorb energy, and heat up, without being polar?
 
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Obviously no, since CO2 and CH4 are not a polar molecules :smile:

What is important is that the molecule be active in the infra-red, which corresponds to vibrational excitation. This precludes non-polar diatomic molecules, for which pure vibrational transitions are dipole-forbidden, but for molecules of 3 and more atoms, there are asymmetric vibrational modes that are active in the infra-red.
 
Ah, thanks, and apologies for my ignorance. I guess what I wanted to know was can you heat up a gas through an absorption line?
 
I don't know the definitive answer to this but I suspect that there could be insufficient power in the limited bandwidth of a well single absorption line (even starting with 1kW/m2 from the Sun) to give a measurable temperature rise from that mechanism.
Someone may well tell me different.
 

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