Do Newton's Three Laws of Motion Hold True in Quantum Physics?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the validity of Newton's three laws of motion in the context of modern physics, particularly in relation to quantum mechanics and relativity. Participants explore whether these laws hold true today and under what conditions they may break down.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants affirm that Newton's laws are correct within their context, particularly for everyday applications and engineering.
  • Others question whether the laws remain valid today, especially at high speeds or in strong gravitational fields where relativity and quantum mechanics may apply.
  • It is noted that while the laws are general ideas about motion, they may not hold as equations in all scenarios.
  • Some participants argue that the change in momentum remains proportional to the external force, even in relativistic contexts, but this force may not align with the direction of momentum change.
  • There is a discussion about the relationship between the verbal descriptions of the laws and their mathematical formulations, with some suggesting that the first law can be seen as a special case of the second law.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that Newton's laws are applicable within certain domains, but there is no consensus on their validity in the realms of quantum physics and relativity. Multiple competing views remain regarding the extent and conditions under which the laws hold true.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific conditions such as speed and gravitational fields, as well as the unresolved nature of how these laws translate into quantum mechanics.

MetricBrian
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Are Newton's three laws of motion correct as Netwon stated them?

1. The first law is the principle of inertia. It states that an object in motion will continue to move unless acted on by an external force. And that an object at rest will remain at rest unless acted on by an external force.
2. The second law states that the change in momentum is proportional to the external force.
3. The third law is that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
 
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On the third law the direction is also opposite F(1,2)=-F(2,1)
 
Yes, but are all these laws still considered correct today?
 
Absolutely, in their context. They're still the basis for every piece of machinery, every building; pretty much everything designed by man.
 
MetricBrian said:
Yes, but are all these laws still considered correct today?
Except insofar as they break down at very high speeds where relativity takes over, yes.
 
russ_watters said:
Except insofar as they break down at very high speeds where relativity takes over, yes.


Yes, but the three laws are general ideas about motion not equations and as general ideas are they not correct?
 
russ_watters
Except insofar as they break down at very high speeds where relativity takes over, yes.
Or, as I understand it, in very dense gravitational fields (general relativity) or on very small scales (quantum mechanics).
 
But even in relativity its correct to say that the change in momentum is proportional to the external force.
 
MetricBrian said:
But even in relativity its correct to say that the change in momentum is proportional to the external force.
Yes, but this force need not be in the same direction as the change in momentum.
 
  • #10
MetricBrian said:
Yes, but the three laws are general ideas about motion not equations and as general ideas are they not correct?
The equations equations are connected to their verbal descriptions. Newton's first law, as you stated it, is basically a verbal description of f=ma.

And yes, again, they are correct in their domain.
 
  • #11
russ_watters said:
The equations equations are connected to their verbal descriptions. Newton's first law, as you stated it, is basically a verbal description of f=ma.

And yes, again, they are correct in their domain.

The first law (a = 0 if f = 0) is a special case of the second law (f = ma).
 
  • #12
russ_watters said:
The equations equations are connected to their verbal descriptions. Newton's first law, as you stated it, is basically a verbal description of f=ma.

And yes, again, they are correct in their domain.

The idea that: the change in momentum is proportional to the external force can
also be expressed as F = dp/dt which was the original Newtonian notation
 
Last edited:
  • #13
or in quantum physics
 

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