Do spin-1 particles also have phase symmetry?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the phase symmetry of spin-1 particles in the context of quantum field theory (QFT). Participants explore whether a pure spin-1 Lagrangian can incorporate a complex phase in a manner similar to complex scalar fields and spinors, and the implications of reality conditions on gauge fields.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that complex scalar fields and spinor fields exhibit phase symmetry, while questioning if this applies to spin-1 fields as well.
  • One participant argues that gauge fields cannot generally have a phase symmetry due to reality conditions, typically a Hermitian condition for vector fields.
  • Another participant mentions that the W± boson is a complex gauge field, raising questions about the implications of reality conditions on phase symmetry.
  • There is a suggestion that the issue may relate to the mismatch between spin states and Lorentz indices in higher spin particles, leading to gauge invariance.
  • A later reply introduces the concept of involuted Grassmann algebra-valued fields, suggesting that this may explain the presence of phase symmetry in complex scalars and spinors but not in vector fields.
  • One participant provides a specific example of the Lagrangian for W bosons, indicating that it can be expressed in terms of complex combinations, which may allow for gauge invariance under phase transformations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether spin-1 fields can possess phase symmetry, with some asserting that reality conditions prevent it, while others suggest that complex representations may allow for such symmetries. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the applicability of phase symmetry to spin-1 fields.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the definitions of reality conditions and gauge symmetries, as well as the unresolved nature of the relationship between spin states and gauge invariance in higher spin particles.

Lapidus
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In almost every QFT or particle textbook we learn that complex scalar fields or spinor fields (or even multiplets of spinor fields) have a phase symmetry (global gauge symmetry.) You can append to these fields an exponential with a complex phase in the Lagrangian and the dynamics remain the same. If we make the phase depend on spacetime and introduce a massless spin-1 field, we end up with local gauge symmetry or just gauge symmetry.

My question: can we also start with a pure spin-1 Lagrangian (massless or not) and just append an exponential with a complex phase to the spin-1 field? Since the dynamics are described by the square of the field tensor, I don't see how this could work. But what are the deeper reasons that complex scalar fields and spinors have phase symmetries and spin-1 fields have not? Or does it matter whether a field is complex or not?

thanks in advance for any anwers!
 
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Lapidus said:
In almost every QFT or particle textbook we learn that complex scalar fields or spinor fields (or even multiplets of spinor fields) have a phase symmetry (global gauge symmetry.) You can append to these fields an exponential with a complex phase in the Lagrangian and the dynamics remain the same. If we make the phase depend on spacetime and introduce a massless spin-1 field, we end up with local gauge symmetry or just gauge symmetry.

My question: can we also start with a pure spin-1 Lagrangian (massless or not) and just append an exponential with a complex phase to the spin-1 field? Since the dynamics are described by the square of the field tensor, I don't see how this could work. But what are the deeper reasons that complex scalar fields and spinors have phase symmetries and spin-1 fields have not? Or does it matter whether a field is complex or not?

thanks in advance for any anwers!

Phase symmetries can only be applied to complex fields. Vector fields, except maybe in some speculative exotic scenario, always satisfy some sort of reality condition, typically a Hermitian condition when viewed as a quantum field operator. For ##U(1)## gauge fields, the Hermitian operator condition is appropriate. For ##SU(N)## gauge fields, the generators of the adjoint representation are explicitly Hermitian matrices, then the entries of these matrices are further Hermitian operators.

So gauge fields cannot have a general phase symmetry. The best we can allow is a ##\mathbb{Z}_2## symmetry, but unless this is the same as the parity symmetry, it would forbid the standard formulation of gauge theory in terms of promoting ##\partial_\mu## to ##\partial_\mu + i A_\mu##. Incidentally, the same breakdown of the formalism would be true if we somehow found a way to allow more general phase symmetries. So it is crucial that gauge fields are real.
 
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Thank you, fzero!
 
fzero said:
So it is crucial that gauge fields are real.
The W± boson is an example of a gauge field that is complex.
 
Bill_K said:
The W± boson is an example of a gauge field that is complex.

But if reality conditions do not forbid phase symmetry, what then?

Or is it just due to "the trouble with higher spin particles"? The problem that the spin states degree of freedom does not match the Lorentz indices in the spacetimes tensors and we end up with a redundant description (i.e. gauge invariance).

Maybe someone is knowledgeable enough in differential geometry and principal fiber bundles language could help out. Are not there some conditions that might explain why complex scalars, spinors and multiplets of fields have phase symmetry, but vector fields do not seem to have it?
 
Lapidus said:
[...] Are not there some conditions that might explain why complex scalars, spinors and multiplets of fields have phase symmetry, but vector fields do not seem to have it?

Sure there are. The complex scalars, vectors and spinors are involuted Grassmann algebra-valued, where involution is complex conjugation. The requirement is to build real Lagrangians/Hamiltonians wrt involution therefore U(1) phase symmetry follows.
 
Lapidus said:
My question: can we also start with a pure spin-1 Lagrangian (massless or not) and just append an exponential with a complex phase to the spin-1 field? Since the dynamics are described by the square of the field tensor, I don't see how this could work. But what are the deeper reasons that complex scalar fields and spinors have phase symmetries and spin-1 fields have not? Or does it matter whether a field is complex or not?
For a vector particle the Lagrangian is, as you say, the square of the field tensor,

L = Wμν Wμν

The W bosons form an SU(2) triplet, and the Lagrangian is

L = Wμν · Wμν

where the dot product means

(W1μν)2 + (W2μν)2 + (W3μν)2

and W1, W2, W3 are real. Now we replace W1 and W2 with complex combinations W± = (W1 ∓ i W2)/√2. [corrected] The Lagrangian must then be written as

L = Wμν* · Wμν

This is invariant under the usual electromagnetic gauge transformation, in which a phase is added to W.
 
Last edited:
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Ahh, so the crucial thing is indeed that the field is complex! (scalar, spinor or vector field)
 

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