Do you feel proud to your contry?

[Integral]

True American Patroism must be a very different beast from that of other countries. I believe that true American Patroism is defined in Therous essay "On Civil Disobediance" It is the true American Patriots to guard against govermental encroachment on our basic rights as stated in the Declaration of Independence and the constituion.

The current state of affairs is alarming, there is way to much nationalism and not nearly enough patriotism.

http://www.cs.indiana.edu/statecraft/civ.dis.html

 

[brewnog]

I love Welsh rarebit. When I was little, I thought it was Welsh Rabbit, but was confused why it was just melted cheese.

Evo: Welsh culture lesson:
In the old days, real Welsh Rabbits made too much of a mess when they grated them, so nowadays they use rarebit (cheese) instead of rabbits to save on the washing up.

 

[Evo]

Evo: Welsh culture lesson:
In the old days, real Welsh Rabbits made too much of a mess when they grated them, so nowadays they use rarebit (cheese) instead of rabbits to save on the washing up.

Eeeewwwww.

 

[Learning Curve]

America:

I'm proud of our freedom and our power. I'm proud of our patriotism and our land.

What I'm not proud of is our government (i.e. the people in it) and our culture. Our ignorance is a problem, and our lack of a good school system.( I live in Tennessee and our public school systems are a joke.)

 

[Galileo]

Learning curve. From my standpoint, that does not make you a patriot, but an idealist.
What is important to you are the symbolic meanings you happen to relate to america, like freedom, liberty, independence, democrazy, ehm demoCRACY.
That's different from being a american patriot, which means having a chauvinistic prefererence over all things american.

 

[arildno]

Of course, when everyone uses their own, particular meaning of the words "patriotism" and "nationalism", which might well defer from the meanings used by another person, then we have in place the optimal conditions for an endless and sterile "debate".

 

[Smurf]

slash flamewar

 

[gurkhawarhorse]

not proud of

I am from the US and I am proud of the US. Frankly, I can't see why physical features of the land would be something to be proud of, though: Americans didn't build the Grand Canyon.

->well then, i am not proud of the mt. everest.

->i am not proud of having hydro electricity to lighten the whole asia ( not used to even 5 % of total power though. )

->not proud of having 10 of the world top 14 mountains; and 8 of world top 10

->not, no, never, proud of having the birth place of lord buddha.(there is a debate between India and nepal for this but the ashoka pillar (of king ashok who came to nepal after turning into buddhist) stands only in nepal and India is still searching in its territory for it)
well, {that time there were no nepal and India & the country of buddha was between nepal and India but inscriptions pointing the location within the range of +-50 km comes under nepal} this pinpointing was done by japan first and china later

->not proud of having variety of climate(at least temperature):-
:summer season max recorded 55 c in nepaljung and,
:summer(not winter) measurement of mt everest temp is -80c as no one has measured it in winter season)

gurkha-war-horse

 

[EL]

So the question is: Who's definition shall we stick too? The Swedish, the American, the Dutch, the Canadian, the Chinese,...? If I vote for the first, would that make me a patriot? (Or nationalist, or how was it?) So maybe I will wait for someone else to deside, just in order to make it clear that I'm not patriotic! (Accordning to my definition)

 

[arildno]

So the question is: Who's definition shall we stick too? The Swedish, the American, the Dutch, the Canadian, the Chinese,...? If I vote for the first, would that make me a patriot? (Or nationalist, or how was it?) So maybe I will wait for someone else to deside, just in order to make it clear that I'm not patriotic! (accordning to what I mean by patriotic)

Well, to me as a Norwegian, it is no news that there doesn't exist anything Swedes could really be patriotic about..

As an example:
Jumping through your house in Christmas time, hollering about some dumb fox?
Please..

 

[EL]

Well, to me as a Norwegian, it is no news that there doesn't exist anything Swedes could really be patriotic about..

As an example:
Jumping through your house in Christmas time, hollering about some dumb fox?
Please..

Well, I have to say that "the small frogs" and "the priest's little crow" which we sing about in midsummer kick ass compared to that boring fox running over the ice!
Anyway, as a Norwegian you must be very proud over your entertaining soccer team!

 

[arildno]

Anyway, as a Norwegian you must be very proud over your entertaining soccer team!

Yes, some of them have very nice butts.

 

[EL]

Yes, some of them have very nice&tight butts.

If you think so, you have never seen the Swedish team...

 

[arildno]

If you think so, you have never seen the Swedish team...

Okay, I'll take your word on that.
So I was wrong then after all; Swedes DO have something to be proud of after all..

 

[EL]

Okay, I'll take your word on that.
So I was wrong then after all; Swedes DO have something to be proud of after all..

Well I'm just "proud" of my own but...

 

[arildno]

Well I'm just "proud" of my own but...

 

[Nomy-the wanderer]

Well there r a 100 reasons to be proud of being an Egyptian, but that's just it..I'm more fond of my city than my whole country, i think of myself as alexandrian 1st, and then Egyptian...This is kinda strange but it ahs been always like that for me

 

[arildno]

Well there r a 100 reasons to be proud of being an Egyptian, but that's just it..I'm more fond of my city than my whole country, i think of myself as alexandrian 1st, and then Egyptian...This is kinda strange but it ahs been always like that for me

I think that's a perfectly natural sentiment.
I think of myself more as an Oslonian than a Norwegian.

 

[Nomy-the wanderer]

Not many people share the same opinion, but do u think that this has got to do with the city itself??

 

[arildno]

Not many people share the same opinion, but do u think that this has got to do with the city itself??

No, I think it has more to do with that you identify the strongest with the social "group" you're interacting most with.

That is, your strongest bonds are typically to those of friends&family, then perhaps comes how you identify yourself with your work and your colleagues, then your city, then your country, then possibly, the rest of humanity..

 

[russ_watters]

Well there r a 100 reasons to be proud of being an Egyptian, but that's just it..I'm more fond of my city than my whole country, i think of myself as alexandrian 1st, and then Egyptian...This is kinda strange but it ahs been always like that for me

There are Americans who are that way as well - they tend to be in specific groups.

 

[russ_watters]

So the question is: Who's definition shall we stick too? The Swedish, the American, the Dutch, the Canadian, the Chinese,...? If I vote for the first, would that make me a patriot? (Or nationalist, or how was it?) So maybe I will wait for someone else to deside, just in order to make it clear that I'm not patriotic! (Accordning to my definition)

I took a class called "nations and nationalism" in college and the class analyzed the causes and effects of nationalism (as well as related issues like patriotism and xenophobia) all over the world. I'd be interested in hearing scholarly definitions from around the world, but I'm not inclined to accept popular definitions.

It's a lot like the debate on defining "terrorism" - since it is an emotionally/politically charged word, people tend to use it as it suits them and utterly refuse to agree on an objective definition.

 

[russ_watters]

True American Patroism must be a very different beast from that of other countries. I believe that true American Patroism is defined in Therous essay "On Civil Disobediance" It is the true American Patriots to guard against govermental encroachment on our basic rights as stated in the Declaration of Independence and the constituion.

This may well be the case, which is why I'd like to hear some scholarly definitions from other countries. The idea that patriotism can come from disobedience (or even rebellion) is something that may well be uniquely American.

Nationalism is much simpler to define.

 

[Nomy-the wanderer]

No, I think it has more to do with that you identify the strongest with the social "group" you're interacting most with.

That is, your strongest bonds are typically to those of friends&family, then perhaps comes how you identify yourself with your work and your colleagues, then your city, then your country, then possibly, the rest of humanity..

Possibly..

 

[russ_watters]

Patriotism: love for or devotion to one's country
Nationalism: loyalty and devotion to a nation; especially : a sense of national consciousness exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups
They are virtually identical when "one's country" is the same as "a nation." (See rest of post). [emphasis added]

Virtually identical, but there is a key difference, in bold. IMO, that's an understatement, but it does capture the idea: nationalism is exclusionary and dominerring, patriotism is not.

For example, German Nationalism in the 1930s held that since Germany was the best and needed "living room", inferior countries should give that space to Germany. American patriotism means exporting our system of government, but not so we can conquer, but so others can share in our prosperity.

At least implicitly, it does. If you love and are devoted to your country, then chances are, you feel that it is better than other countries.

Actually, you are making two logical leaps there, not just one: there is nothing exclusionary or in any way negative about thinking your country is better than others. In fact, if you didn't think you live in the best country, you really should move! Where the feeling of being better becomes dangerous is when you think because we are better, we deserve your land, resources, etc.. That's what the nationalistic wars in the first half of this century were about. But the feeling of being better, on its own, is not a bad thing at all and does not imply animosity.

Obviously, nationalism is more aggressive than patriotism. Patriotism is really a less extreme version of nationalism, and can develop into full-fledged nationalism in a veritable heartbeat.

I agree - they are separate (didn't you just contradict yourself..?), but related ideas. But the differences are important. They explain, for example, why the western world has not been invovled in territorial expansion since WWII.

 

[gurkhawarhorse]

uh! one thing the writer of ( hilight )kama-sutra ie. veda vyasa came to nepal with his 2 wives to meditate in kaligandaki river area and wrote the best book in the world!
well, nearly all of the hindu sages were born in India but, nearly all of them came to the mountains for penance and meditation. vyasa was one of them.

gurkha-war-horse

 

[Gokul43201]

IMO, patriotism is often useful in the sense that it focuses effort towards progress. However, in the sense that a person will likely stick up for his/her country in general, it is illogical.

 

[EL]

American patriotism means exporting our system of government, but not so we can conquer, but so others can share in our prosperity.

So, on assuming you're a patriot, why do you want to "export" the American system of government, and not the Swedish or Australian one?

Another question: Do you see the people of North Korea as patriots?

 

[motai]

veda vyasa came to nepal with his 2 wives to meditate in kaligandaki river area and wrote the best book in the world!

Meditate.. right

Seems more like experimentation to me .

 

[russ_watters]

So, on assuming you're a patriot, why do you want to "export" the American system of government, and not the Swedish or Australian one?

Since I feel the American one is the best, I feel it would benefit other countries more to adopt our system (or, perhaps, a hybrid) than others. Many countries of the Eastern Bloc needed just that type of advice in the 1990s, as they tried to form democratic governments from scratch. But it is actually as much about the ideals as it is the actual structure of the government. It gave me great pride when I visited Lithuania about 5 years ago and saw how the citizens identified with American values on government. We were with a NATO force from 8 countries (in the Navy) and the reception we got made it clear: 'you are the ones we wish to emulate.' That is what makes me most proud to be an American.

Another question: Do you see the people of North Korea as patriots?

I don't have a clue what the average North Korean thinks about his country/situation. I know that if I were in such a situation, I wouldn't have much of a national identity left to feel patriotism for: in a dictatorship, the dictator is the country. And I would despise Il as much as a North Korean as I do as an American.