Do You Have What It Takes to be a Genius?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of genius, exploring its definitions, the role of IQ, and the relationship between innate ability and environmental factors. Participants consider whether genius is a product of genetics, environment, or a combination of both, and whether IQ tests accurately measure mental ability or overlook other important traits like creativity.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether genius is solely determined by genetics or if environmental factors play a significant role.
  • There is a suggestion that IQ tests may not fully capture a person's mental abilities, with some arguing that creativity and other traits are equally important.
  • One participant defines genius as the ability to avoid innate human stupidity, while others provide alternative definitions.
  • Some argue that achievement is more about determination and perseverance than raw intelligence.
  • Several participants express skepticism about the validity of IQ tests, suggesting they may only reflect one's ability to take such tests rather than true intelligence.
  • There are discussions about historical figures like Galois and Gauss, with differing views on whether they recognized their own genius.
  • One participant shares personal experiences of problem-solving in a technical context, questioning the label of genius in relation to practical achievements.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the definition of genius, the relevance of IQ, and the importance of humility. There is no clear consensus, as multiple competing views remain throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the limitations of defining genius strictly by IQ scores, suggesting that achievement and practical problem-solving may be more relevant indicators. The discussion also reflects varying personal experiences and interpretations of what constitutes genius.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those exploring the nature of intelligence, the validity of IQ testing, and the broader implications of what it means to be a genius in both historical and contemporary contexts.

stoorssarg
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ARE you a genius*** :- )

What do you think gives a person special mental abilities? (IQ of 149+) Is it all genetics or just your environment, or a combination of the two? Do you think the IQ test really measures your mental ability? Or is there other factors that the IQ test doesn't take into consideration such as creativity and so on. OR maybe genius is just a state of mind that we all can achieve.
 
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Genius is the ability to elude innate human stupidity, at least in my opinion.
 
Werg22 said:
Genius is the ability to elude innate human stupidity, at least in my opinion.
Good analogy. Creativity and imagination can trump craftsmanship and the "grind" of the trails fostered by a lack of epistemology.
 
stoorssarg said:
ARE you a genius*** :- )
I like to think that. I have an outsanding memory. Learn advanced mathematics on my own. I can pass my exams in 1/3 the given time.
 
IQ tests are inaccurate.
I like Werg22's definition of genius. And last time I checked, finishing [and passing] an exam in less than half the time is not grounds for being a genius.
 
Kummer said:
I like to think that. I have an outsanding memory. Learn advanced mathematics on my own. I can pass my exams in 1/3 the given time.

first sign you're not a genius? thinking you're a genius
 
ice109 said:
first sign you're not a genius? thinking you're a genius

I don't know about this. Some true geniuses are very well conscious that they are geniuses.
 
ice109 said:
first sign you're not a genius? thinking you're a genius
History has it that Gauss was a little of a show off. He was proud to have been the greatest mathematician of his time. I am well sure that he knew he was the genius par excellence.

Same thing with Galois.

---
Just because a quotation sounds nice does not mean it is correct (adapted from Voltaire).
 
But Galois died at 20 in a duel fight because he probably was too confident.
 
  • #10
Being a show off does not mean that you think you're a genius, it just means you're arrogant. However, there's nothing wrong with a bit of arrogance in my opinion.
 
  • #11
Who cares if you are a genius or not if you do not use your talents for the betterment of mankind.
Being smart doesn't really differentiate you from anyone else. In my personal experience, achievement isn't obtained from being smarter than everyone else. It is obtained through determination and perseverance.
Genius is a state of mind we can all achieve.
 
  • #12
It almost takes one to know one. How often have you heard someone say "so and so is a genius", about someone who is simply educated or slightly smarter than average? It happens quite often.
 
  • #13
Well... I can draw a perfect circle with just a pencil, if that counts for anything. =P
 
  • #14
cristo said:
Being a show off does not mean that you think you're a genius, it just means you're arrogant. However, there's nothing wrong with a bit of arrogance in my opinion.

there are many things wrong with being arrogant, not the least of which is that there will always be someone who you should be humbled by.
 
  • #15
ice109 said:
first sign you're not a genius? thinking you're a genius
Perhaps more aptly: "...telling others that you're a genius."

If you have genius, it will show. If you have to tell other people that you are a genius, then it's not showing.
 
  • #16
end3r7 said:
Well... I can draw a perfect circle with just a pencil, if that counts for anything. =P


Cool - you should go up against this guy:
 
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  • #17
Geniuses eat cold food and wear slip on shoes:-p
 
  • #18
Math Is Hard said:
Cool - you should go up against this guy:


 
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  • #19
Math Is Hard said:
Cool - you should go up against this guy:


lmao that's hilarious. i can't believe people take that seriously.:smile:
 
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  • #20
I wonder how the judge this freehand circle competition.
 
  • #21
Chi Meson said:
Perhaps more aptly: "...telling others that you're a genius."

If you have genius, it will show. If you have to tell other people that you are a genius, then it's not showing.

i just kind of assume that if you're smart, you know to be humble.
 
  • #22
Some people define gifted children by IQ scores alone, but define gifted adults by the combination of IQ and actual achievement. Seems reasonable to me.

My IQ scores are fairly high, especially verbal reasoning, but a lot of my co-workers are smarter at troubleshooting. I guess a high IQ score must mean you're good at something, but I'm not sure it's proof of intelligence except in a narrow sense.
 
  • #23
Someone in PF (I think that it was Evo or Moonbear) once pointed out the truth about IQ tests. The only thing that they prove is how good you are at taking IQ tests.
 
  • #24
I suspect genius has little to do with IQ. Galois apparently failed admissions exams to top unis so would likely have received low IQ scores, yet was clearly a genius.

IQ means agreeing with accepted norms of intelligence, genius seems to be the opposite.so all us fruitcakes can claim genius!Lots of people have IQ over 149, probably many on this forum, but are not even that smart, much less geniuses. i think mine was at least 85, last i checked, (but i cheated a little).
 
  • #25
DeadWolfe said:
I wonder how the judge this freehand circle competition.

they use geometry to figure out who drew the most precise circle
 
  • #26
BillJx said:
Some people define gifted children by IQ scores alone, but define gifted adults by the combination of IQ and actual achievement. Seems reasonable to me.

My IQ scores are fairly high, especially verbal reasoning, but a lot of my co-workers are smarter at troubleshooting. I guess a high IQ score must mean you're good at something, but I'm not sure it's proof of intelligence except in a narrow sense.
My IQ scores have been very high since childhood, and I have been compulsively drawn to the "why" and "how" of everything from a young age. As a young adult as the lead operator on the start-up of the most technologically advanced paper machine of the early 1980s (read: most oversold, most prone to failure, most speculative joint venture to that date), I puzzled out some of the most vexing problems that the engineers of our company and the engineers of the manufacturer's company (our partner) could not solve. As a result, I later worked with that paper machine manufacturer's senior troubleshooter as a technical consultant. He was 30 years my senior, neither of us had a degree, and on our first troubleshooting project together, he had me make the presentation to management/production/engineering staff since I was the one who had deduced their primary problem.

Most wet-streak problems on a paper machine arise at the wet end (where the pulp/water/additive slurry is shot onto a moving mesh wire by the headbox) and I think that he handed me that section of the machine because he knew my strengths and wanted me to score an early victory with a skittish client. Some of the senior staff at the mill tried to poo-poo my explanation of the poor practices that caused their problem (wet steaks/ poor drying/sheet breaks) until my mentor had enough and raised his hand and said "Do what he said and your problem is solved - don't and you'll lose production every day". It was a matter that involved slacking off the tension of a cable-raised breast roll mechanism after every wire change. Total cost - 5 seconds of time after the breast roll arm was raised. Total payback - the recovery of tens of thousands of dollars (at a bare minimum - more like hundreds of thousands some days) of lost production per day. The technical service we provided was free. We worked for a company that sold industrial textiles to paper mills and we solved their problems with the honest expectation that if we could help them make them a bunch of money, they would buy our textiles instead of those made by our competitors. It worked.

Genius? No. Getting the job done? The proof is in the customer loyalty and continued business. BTW, Omega (his real name) had a mentor, too. An 80+ year old gentleman who sat on the gang boxes (rolling tool cribs) and watched us try to get that paper machine running back in the '80s. Every once in a while, that old fellow would beckon me over during some trying times and give me a hint or two. That time was never wasted. Automation is a way to get things done with fewer people or with less human interaction. Sometimes the real genius is a person able to cut to the quick and pull off a fundamental improvement with little or no effort - just insight.
 
  • #27
Am I a genius? No, not even close. But I have had the good fortune to work for one in a major discovery (being defined as something that others had spent millions of dollars and years of effort to try to do unsuccessfully). It was thrilling beyond words even though I was strickly grunt labor and my name didn't appear on the paper (rightly so). He was very aware he was brilliant beyond any of us. Not arrogantly, it was just the way it was like the sky being blue or grass green.
 
  • #28
Y I am.
ice109 said:
first sign you're not a genius? thinking you're a genius
Damn :mad:
 
  • #29
I have been called genius far too numerous times to count. Usually when I did something totally boneheaded.:-p
 
  • #30
daveb said:
I have been called genius far too numerous times to count. Usually when I did something totally boneheaded.:-p
You mean like http://www.theonion.com/content/video/report_70_percent_of_all_praise? :biggrin:
 

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