Do You Have What It Takes to be a Genius?

[Werg22]

The question is what makes a genius, if the word actually means anything? Is it his accomplishments or simply his cleverness? I know of incredibly brilliant individuals who are also incredibly unambitious and little willing to put their cleverness into use. Could an individual with these attributes possibly be a genius? I have done some research and it appears that a man named Chris Langan has the highest IQ ever recorded. What does he do? He works as a bar bouncer. You can watch a video of him on Youtube, quite an interesting guy. I have no doubt that this man is capable of incredible mental prowesses, as his IQ proves, but is he really a genius? Pointcarré apparently failed an IQ test that was administered to him but I have no hesitation calling him a genius. In the end, it seems that genius is an elusive thing; I even suspect that those who possesses it do not entirely understand it.

 

[BoredNL]

People do not like admitting they are inferior in any way in comparison to another person, especially in intelligence. We all want to believe we are geniuses but we have doubts that we actually are. If we are "no genius," then we are simply ordinary. The looking glass self kicks in and a pang of inferiority hits, sending us insecurely flying into biased logic and analysis of what it means to be a genius.

The word "genius" has at least two main uses in the context of this thread. One is used to describe a person that is within the top 2 percentile of society as measured by an IQ test. No actual accomplishment is needed to be labeled a "genius" in this manner. The other is of a person who figured out things that nobody else did, even though others may have tried. Tese are usually complex accomplishments, but sometimes even a simple minded person who was simply lucky enough to be viewed as original and creative may be called a "genius." "Genius" existed before IQ tests, however.

The IQ sort of "genius" is an attempt to label and stratify society. The obvious reasons for this would be to cater to those with superior ability and to nurture that ability in schools, higher education, and perhaps even in the workforce. IQ tests are certainly not perfect and their validity has been disputed since the inception of the test. One common argument is that the tests only measure some forms of intelligence, and even those measurements can be quite unreliable, but it is what it is and it has been firmly entrenched into society.

The other sort of genius, which is driven more by actual accomplishment is both more superficial and a more substantiative form of genius. One must rely on their perception of a person to see whether said person is a genius or not. Why do most people believe Einstein is a genius? Did they know him? Have they studied his work? More than likely, the answer is that they have not. I prefer this usage of the word though because it does drive us to create the perception in others that we are a "genius," rather than simply vesting us with the label for accomplishing nothing. I believe this drives many to actual accomplishments, while the label of "genius" given via IQ test actually instills little more than arrogance and complacency, causing errors in judgment or simply little to no productivity. I would critique IQ tests more, but that is outside of the scope of this thread.

Now, arrogance has nothing to do with genius in terms of IQ and is only partially valid in determining genius by the second usage described here. Many like to think that arrogance invalidates a person's "genius" status, and in a way it can because the second usage of the word that I described relies upon society labeling a person with the title of genius. However, an individual does not speak for society, no one person on this forum, nor even group can remove the label of "genius" from a person given that status by society. It is society who creates the label for the person. A very arrogant person may not appear to be that way to the whole of society and in the context of society, even if he does, society in all it's complex interactions may still label him/her a genius.

Remember, the word "genius" is simply an idea created by man and it carries no meaning with it other than the meanings we attribute to it. It doesn't matter which definition you prefer personally. A person can be a type of genius, but you don't have to confuse the meanings and try to take that status away from them. If a lazy, arrogant person with the status of genius because of his IQ tells you he is a genius, what is the sense in disagreeing with him? Just tell him that he is a rather dull and complacent genius who will amount to nothing, and move on.

-Phil

 

[Chi Meson]

I prefer to use the word "genius" in terms of something that certain people have, as opposed to something that certain people are. Many people you have met have a brilliance in particular areas, yet are normal in many other circumstances ("Multiple Intelligences, and all that).

Most of us agree that the measure of genius is through results rather than an IQ test.

 

[George Jones]

Tony Sudbery, a mathematician at University of York in Britain, said to me: "Roger Penrose is a genuius; Stephen Hawking isn't."

 

[Kurdt]

Tony Sudbery, a mathematician at University of York in Britain, said to me: "Roger Penrose is a genuius; Stephen Hawking isn't."

I'd agree. I love Penrose. His book (Road to Reality) is fantastic.

 

[mathwonk]

lets face it, if someone is a genius, how would any of us know?

 

[Danger]

One is used to describe a person that is within the top 2 percentile of society as measured by an IQ test.

Well, that's patently absurd. I was in the top 1% (99th percentile ) 30 years ago before I started getting smart, and I sure as hell ain't no genius even now.
To the OP, I would suggest that perhaps a genius is one who doesn't spell 'Are' as 'A'.
(Yeah, I noticed the all-caps cover-up in the first sentence, but really... somebody had to say it.)

 

[BoredNL]

Well, that's patently absurd. I was in the top 1% (99th percentile ) 30 years ago before I started getting smart, and I sure as hell ain't no genius even now.
To the OP, I would suggest that perhaps a genius is one who doesn't spell 'Are' as 'A'.
(Yeah, I noticed the all-caps cover-up in the first sentence, but really... somebody had to say it.)

You are technically one form of genius then, but the whole point of having this sort of "genius" status is so that you may use it towards constructive things. There is a moderate link between IQ tests and success in academia and highly technical fields. It's more of an imperfect and limited predictive status given to you with lots of bias and narrowmindedness attached. I wouldn't boast about it if I were you, but it probably isn't a bad thing.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

ARE you a genius*** :- )

What do you think gives a person special mental abilities? (IQ of 149+) Is it all genetics or just your environment, or a combination of the two? Do you think the IQ test really measures your mental ability? Or is there other factors that the IQ test doesn't take into consideration such as creativity and so on. OR maybe genius is just a state of mind that we all can achieve.

No it measures your level of education mostly.

And yes precisely because it does not take into account creativity it is practically redundant IMHO.

IQ tests(proper ones) Are a waste of money, internet ones are a joke , go buy a textbook and learn instead, IQ is debunkable.

i just kind of assume that if you're smart, you know to be humble.

By some accounts I've heard Newton was an obnoxious and arrogant man, who knew he was a genius, hard to get on with.

But then who'd argue with a man who stuck a pen in his eye to work out if it would effect his visual acuity, I don't think we can draw any conclusions about personality or sanity in making an assumption.

Feynman: IQ 120: impresses me, his ideas about what it takes to develop a highly inquisitive and broad mind tend to show that he was a genius.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1dgrvlWML4&mode=related&search=



And Amen to the last one, it's the essence of science.

Besides being a wonderful physicist, Mr. Feynman was a wonderful person! What a joy is to watch him talking! The world is a better place since he lived in it...

The quintesential of genius, right or wrong the world is a better place for you having been there, and there are many who fit that criteria. Even you *points*

I'd say never be satisfied with an arbitrary nonsense such as IQ, I suppose genius is in, as said, what you achieve not what you think of yourself or non correlatory tests.

 

[Werg22]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1dgr...elated&search=

I never knew Feynman had such a New Yorker accent.

 

[Gib Z]

O my god I agree with Werg...I SWEAR his accents different in those links than in other video lectures I've seen...but either way, I can't believe I didn't say he's a genius before lol. Actually this reminds me of a book I read a few years ago when I knew pretty much nothing about mathematics, but quite a lot of Physical Theory.

I underline theory because I knew the principles of many things such as relativity and quantum mechanics and even up to a point got as advanced as QED and QCD. However I realized one day that meant actually very very little, as the maths in those theories were to biggest part! And since I hadn't even heard of a logarithm then, I decided to start learning maths in pure pursuit of my dreams in physics. But i seem to have converted to a mathematician-wannabe now.

I just realized I went very off the topic, but you won't know that till you've read this far anyway so it doesn't matter :) The point was I read this very interesting book that gives shortened biographies of about 6 or so influential Physicists. And the names were the some of the biggest. Newton, Einstein, Heisenberg, Feynman, Bohr (even though personally i don't think that he was THAT great) and and Finally who i don't agree with but the book seemed to think was the finest example of a genius, Murray Gell-Mann. It doesn't say on the wikipedia link, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_Gell-Mann , but the biography said he spoke 6 of so languages. Not just that, but his father had pioneered a technique as to learn a language and speak it without the slightest hint of an accent. He went to Yale at 15 years of age as well >.< He also was known to be an arrogant person, so perhaps people can have an arrogance about their genius but still be one..There were many other things that left me with the impression this guy was "one smart cookie" as my sister says, i just can't remember them lol.

I also remember that Heisenberg is quite a genius too, and to a lesser extent his brother. They used to go on hiking trips and on the long walks Heisenberg and his brother would play chess. How they held the board you say? No need, they played in their minds >.< "Queen to B5" etc etc, and they would remember the positions of all their pieces...quite amazing.

But come on guys, at the end of the day, there's no debate that this guys a real genius :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSw1Qav0L2E&NR=1
(they spelled his name wrong ..)

 

[Zeth]

IQ measures how well you do in IQ tests, not to mention denoting a 3 hour period in your life which could have been better spent watching paint dry.

As for genius it in the eye of the beholder rather than in the head of the beholdee.

 

[ice109]

snip

theres no way feynman's iq was 120

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

theres no way feynman's iq was 120

My mistake it was 124

http://www.assessmentpsychology.com/genius.htm

"On the trip home from the Nobel ceremonies in Stockholm, prize-winning physicist Richard Feynman stopped in Queens, N.Y., and looked up his high-school records. 'My grades were not as good as I remembered,' he said, 'and my I.Q. was 124, considered just above average.' "

James Gleick. (1992). Genius: The Life and Science of Richard Feynman. New York: Pantheon.

Editor's note -- Richard Feynman's IQ of 124 was well above average for high school graduates and even college graduates. The average IQ of PhD/MD degree recipients is about 125, which is higher than 95 percent of the general population. Beyond a certain level of ability, other factors are certainly more important in determining an individual's chances of winning the Nobel Prize than IQ, not the least of which is the quality and reputation of the institution where the individual obtained his/her graduate degree and worked or taught. See Nobel Prize Winners and Universities. -- W.E.B.

As I said people take this nonsense far too seriously (even letting it influence there education choices or personal sense of intelligence) Genius or even intelligence isn't all that Correlatory with IQ it never has been. It may tell you how well you might do in education, but further than that it's hard to say.

"The four socially and personally most important threshold regions on the IQ scale are those that differentiate with high probability between persons who, because of their level of general mental ability, can or cannot attend a regular school (about IQ 50), can or cannot master the traditional subject matter of elementary school (about IQ 75), can or cannot succeed in the academic or college preparatory curriculum through high school (about IQ 105), can or cannot graduate from an accredited four-year college with grades that would qualify for admission to a professional or graduate school (about IQ 115). Beyond this, the IQ level becomes relatively unimportant in terms of ordinary occupational aspirations and criteria of success. That is not to say that there are not real differences between the intellectual capabilities represented by IQs of 115 and 150 or even between IQs of 150 and 180. But IQ differences in this upper part of the scale have far less personal implications than the thresholds just described and are generally of lesser importance for success in the popular sense than are certain traits of personality and character."

Arthur Jensen. (1980). Bias in Mental Testing. New York: Free Press, p. 113.

"It has been said that a 140 IQ is a "genius" score, however there is no definition, as such, in either of my psychological dictionaries about "genius." Neither is there an IQ score ranked as "genius"... Genius may be in the eye of the beholder. Furthermore, a true genius may not score particularly well on a standard group IQ test... And really, those who are what we may call a genius don't need a score to prove it."

The Question Of "Genius"
Abbie F. Salny, Ed.D., Supervisory psychologist, American Mensa

From my personal experience I've found people who are gifted at maths and language to score high on IQ tests, but to have little imagination or creativity sometimes, and that is what genius and intelligence is also about, a test that misses this, is missing the bigger picture. These skills in IQ tests are important, but those they miss are more important IMO.

 

[BoredNL]

Even a "complete" IQ test that gave weight to all the vague forms of intelligence we are able to categorize would never be accurate, simply because it gives equal weight to the differing parts. Even trying to set some sort of proportion scale wouldn't be accurate. A person may be specifically wonderful at mathematical equations, but terrible at language problems, so they would still receive a lower score. The problem is that the test generalizes everything into 1 number, which is inadequate at best and is ignorantly discriminatory.

 

[Couperin]

I loved it when I read one of Feynman's biographies and discovered that his IQ was 'only' 124, because it more or less confirmed my suspicion that the concept of IQ is for the most part BS. The fact is that Feynman's intelligence probably didn't function in the terms tested by an IQ test and that's probably what made him a genius (However it should also be noted that Feynman did very well in the maths and spatial tests, and poorly on the linguistic tests).

I once had a convo with someone to whom it was obvious that Feynman’s ‘real’ IQ was much higher than that produced by his IQ test. Personally I think that's a load of crap because what is a ‘real’ IQ? IQ is exactly what it is: the results of a very specific test. That’s literally what it is (like you needed me to say so). Gauging intelligence by a ratings system is IMO completely misunderstanding the nature of intelligence, hence why IQ tests spew out so many anomalous results.

 

[Just some guy]

Nah, not really close. Come to think of it I don't think I've ever met a genius :/ I guess I'll stumble across one eventually.

But I do think that IQ tests don't really have a lot to do with genius. I once saw an article about a guy who created sculptures from a grain of sand, painted them with a hair plucked from a fly and placed them in the eye of a needle. His stuff was amazing, I would call it genius, and the guy can't even read or write and has an IQ less than 100.

 

[Werg22]

But IQ tests do measure some form of brilliance. Not everyone can score a high IQ.

 

[ice109]

But IQ tests do measure some form of brilliance. Not everyone can score a high IQ.

and not everyone can roll their tongue. it's been said before an iq test measures someone's ability to take an iq test. while their might be some correlation between iq and success there's no casual relationship

 

[BobG]

and not everyone can roll their tongue. it's been said before an iq test measures someone's ability to take an iq test. while their might be some correlation between iq and success there's no casual relationship

I agree. It's a predictor since there is a correlation between IQ and job performance/success, but it's not a particularly great predictor, especially above a certain IQ. It's more one of those things that you need enough of and after that other factors start to become more important.

You might have a hard time saying IQ correlates to success depending on how you define success. Looking over the Wikipedia article, a person with an IQ < 75 is more likely to find a spouse by the age of 30 than a person with an IQ > 125. Of course, those with an IQ of 110 or less have a much higher chance of divorcing within 5 years, so maybe there's a decent trade off in the long term.

 

[maze]

They used to go on hiking trips and on the long walks Heisenberg and his brother would play chess. How they held the board you say? No need, they played in their minds >.< "Queen to B5" etc etc, and they would remember the positions of all their pieces...quite amazing.

Me and my brother and one of my brothers friends used to do this when we were kids, usually on long car trips. It's really hard at first and you make a lot of blunders, but after a while it gets to be second nature. As a skill, I'd say it's roughly as difficult as learning to do a handstand, or juggle 3 balls (about 20 hours required).

 

[rewebster]

funny, I was never told my IQ---maybe I missed the tests from moving so often--


and now for the bad news about IQ:

"Health and IQ
Main article: Health and intelligence
Persons with a higher IQ have generally lower adult morbidity and mortality. Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder,[55] severe depression,[56][57] and schizophrenia[58] are less prevalent in higher IQ bands.

A study of 11,282 individuals in Scotland who took intelligence tests at ages 7, 9 and 11 in the 1950s and 1960s, found an "inverse linear association" between childhood IQ scores and hospital admissions for injuries in adulthood. The association between childhood IQ and the risk of later injury remained even after accounting for factors such as the child's socioeconomic background.[59] Research in Scotland has also shown that a 15-point lower IQ meant people had a fifth less chance of seeing their 76th birthday, while those with a 30-point disadvantage were 37% less likely than those with a higher IQ to live that long.[60]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ

its probably from being called an "egghead" and being pushed to the ground by the bully so often that it becomes a habit

 

[thomasxc]

Genius is the ability to elude innate human stupidity, at least in my opinion.

amen. i think that if people sat down and tried, theyd be a lot smarter than they generally are...i think "geniuses" are genetically predisposed to a certain skill...but that's just me../