Does Gauss' law imply that the universe isn't compactified?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of Gauss' law in the context of compactified spaces, particularly whether such a law suggests that the universe cannot be compactified. Participants explore the distinctions between "inside" and "outside" in various geometrical contexts, particularly in relation to electric fields and point charges in a compactified 1+1 dimensional world.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that Gauss' law creates a distinction between "inside" and "outside," which may not hold in a compactified space like a circle.
  • Others question the interpretation of "inside" and "outside" in compactified geometries, suggesting that the Maxwell equations do not inherently make such distinctions.
  • A participant proposes a scenario involving a point charge in a compactified space, questioning how Gauss' law would apply in defining electric fields when considering different segments of the space.
  • Another participant suggests that for consistency, the total electric charge in a compactified space must be zero, implying that for every positive charge, there must be a corresponding negative charge to maintain the integrity of electric field lines.
  • Some participants agree that in a closed universe, electric field lines would need to be closed, indicating that the distinction of "inside" and "outside" may not affect the application of Gauss' law.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of Gauss' law in compactified spaces, with no consensus reached on whether the universe can be considered compactified based on these discussions.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the nature of compactified spaces and the application of Gauss' law in these contexts, particularly concerning the definitions of "inside" and "outside" and the implications for electric charge distribution.

Rocky Raccoon
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The first Maxwell equation, Gauss' law makes a clear distinction between "inside" and "outside". But such a distinction can't be made in a compactified space (e.g. circle). Does that mean that the universe isn't compactified in a sense that if one was to move in a "straight" line one would never return to the starting place?
 
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I am not sure what you mean by circles not having an inside and outside.

The Maxwell Equations in differential form don't make any inside/outside distinction. If you'd like to integrate them over a larger space, I suppose that you could say something about the volumes that you can integrate over, but this is a statement about integration, not about electromagnetism.
 
I thnk the OP means a "curved" space, as in the pop-sci analogies of the circumference of a circle or the surface of a sphere .

But in both those examples, you can define a sub-region of space which has a closed boundary, and any two points are either on the "same side" of the boundary or on "opposite sides", so I'm not sure exactly what the OP's question is.
 
What I meant to ask was:

Imagine 1+1 dimensional world with space compactified in a circle. If you go straight ahead for enough time, you reach the starting point. Put a point charge Q somewhere on the circle. Choose two point A and B so that Q is "inside" [A,B]. But then Q is "outside" [B,A]. What would Gauss' law give for an electric field in this case?
 
Rocky Raccoon said:
What I meant to ask was:

Imagine 1+1 dimensional world with space compactified in a circle. If you go straight ahead for enough time, you reach the starting point. Put a point charge Q somewhere on the circle. Choose two point A and B so that Q is "inside" [A,B]. But then Q is "outside" [B,A]. What would Gauss' law give for an electric field in this case?

I think i understood what you mean. I may be talking nonsense, but i would risk saying that Gauss' law implies that the total electric charge of any space of this kind is zero, as the only way to avoid inconsistencies.

Like if there is a +Q charge at [A,B], there must be a -Q charge at [B,A] so the field lines that were diverging from +Q can converge to -Q. If there were not this -Q charge, the field lines that were diverging from +Q would converge somewhere without there being any charge there, and that would be inconsistent.
 
coelho said:
I think i understood what you mean. I may be talking nonsense, but i would risk saying that Gauss' law implies that the total electric charge of any space of this kind is zero, as the only way to avoid inconsistencies.

Like if there is a +Q charge at [A,B], there must be a -Q charge at [B,A] so the field lines that were diverging from +Q can converge to -Q. If there were not this -Q charge, the field lines that were diverging from +Q would converge somewhere without there being any charge there, and that would be inconsistent.

I agree with you. So, in a closed universe, electric field lines would also have to be closed. In that case it doesn't matter which side is in or out since Gauss' law will always produce the same result.
 

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